Classic AquaSport
Aquasport Model Rebuilds, Mods, Updates and Refreshes => Center Console Professional (CCP) Rebuilds => 200 CCP Rebuilds => Topic started by: WannabeDeepSea on July 25, 2011, 10:59:28 AM
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I bought a 1980 200 CCP on 7/14/11 and have proceeded to tear it apart in order to rebuild it again(the deck was rotted). I will add pictures as soon as my wife will bring her camera back. Anyway, I have removed all wiring and mechanical parts, removed console, cut out the deck(including the bath tub splashwell), removed the tops of the stringers and removed all foam in the boat(stringers and outside the stringers). I say I have removed all, that is not fully accurate as I have run into a slight jam. The last two feet or so(nearest the transom) is still there. I wanted to ask if it was possible to access the foam here by removing the sides of the stringers? From a strength standpoint, as long as I glass it back, it should not make a difference, correct? The reason I want to go through th side is because there are transom supports attached to the top of them(and because the tops are halfway covered by the corner boxes of the cap). I have been stalled for a couple of days wondering the best route to take. Thanks for your help!
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I am also wondering a couple of other things:
Is there wood in the strip that runs along the inside of the keel?
Is it safe to pressure wash the entire inside bare hull?
Thanks!
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Don't see a problem going through one side in such a small area...just leave the tops on at that position.
You definitely want it out tho, especially back there.
G'luck :thumright:
Yep, there is wood under the glass on that strip. There was in my '73. Put a grinder on it, make it go poof. Come back with something synthetic. Then 1708.
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The last two feet or so(nearest the transom) is still there. I wanted to ask if it was possible to access the foam here by removing the sides of the stringers?
Use a long, narrow shovel and you can get that foam out. You can use a paint stirrer on a drill to cut holes in the foam if you need to. Then finish off getting the foam out with the power washer.
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If you do choose to use a power washer inside the stringers: tilt the trailer as high as possible to allow water flow to the stern. Use a shop vac to remove the residual trapped water. Then come back and spend some time inside the stringers with a leaf blower, moving moisture to the stern. Then vac again. Carefully place a heat lamp back there if necessary...move indoors to dry.
Prior to re-foaming/re-glassing...you want a bone-dry substrate.
The new encapsulated stringer system should go fifty years, if not pierced.
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I think I spent 16 hours removing closed cell foam. I found some reinforcement plywood glassed inside the stringers when I cut the side of them at the transom. If I had to guess only 2-5% of the foam was moist in the stringers. The foam was difficult to remove. I had to use a crow bar to pop little chunks out. I think it was one of the most frustrating things I have done. Itchy too. :scratch:
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Well...that's good. Actually great. That you have un-soaked foam...you're in the top two to five percent. And not as a factor of soaked foam on the bottom as you describe...as a percentage of owners who do not have soaked foam.
Given that, would not introduce water inside the stringers. Keep her dry.
This good news may also be a function of CCP layup/construction. The CCP owners in the past haven't noted waterlogged stringers...more good news.
Keep posting. Let us know. Thanks.
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OK, I am in the middle of replacing the foam with 4lb us composites poly. I plan to raise the stringers 3/4 to 1" and set the new core(greenwood plydek) on top of the lip I left. I have started grinding(and itching) and am stuck wondering how many inches up do I need to grind in order to tape(tab) the new deck to the lip and cap.
I am also wondering(and I need to attach some pics) about a "plug" the previous owner put in a thru hull. It is a full repair on the outer. It appears to be a wooden plug(dowel?) used as a core on the inner. The wood seems ok, but unsealed. Should I grind it and glass over it?
The thru hull for the scuppers and deck drain also have wood backing that is bare, should I grind these out and glass those spots as well?
I have a hundred(exaggerating a bit) of other questions but need to have a little patience(and of course some pics) before I ask any more.
Oh, one more question tonight, I sweat a lot. Is there a respirator that works ok and doesn't clog with sweat? "I am having a hell of a time trying to breathe through all of the moisture.
Thanks!
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The sweat thing sucks.
Fitz and I have discussed at great length the idea of cutting out a rotten deck, and leaving an inch and a half or so of the former deck as a ledge. Use the remains as support, and build the new deck on top of it.
That idea has been proffered here on Classic Aquasport rebuilds since day one.
We have mutually concluded that this is an easy but poor escape.
To the extent that we cut out the rotten floor for the rebuild/repair...what is left in that inch and a half on the ledge?
Nothing but more wet plywood rot.
JMHO... thanks.
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The ply around the lip(the very little that remains) is in good shape. The wood that was wet was along the center line(console screws, two compartments did not have drains at all :shock: and 3 access plates/ hatches that were not sealed).
Thanks!
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I agree with gran. Never leave old rotted wood, it will bit you later. I’m going to rebuild my deck this winter. Since I did a core simple on my stringers at the transoms. I don’t have a problem their. So I ‘m going to try something different. I’m going to cut out the top glass and remove it as one piece. Then dig out the rotted wood. Which on my boat won’t be hard, since its all rotted. That will leave the under layer of glass. I then am going to sand that layer and coat with epoxy to seal. Then resand and add a layer of glass. Then add what ever matl. I decide to use. Then add a layer of glass and the old top layer. That will leave me with original glass deck. Then I will only have to deal with the joint at the gunnels. Then paint. Which will give me the final seal. I see know reason why it won't work. But I have the time to try somthing different. That's what so great about being RETIRED. :thumright:
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OK, I am in the middle of replacing the foam with 4lb us composites poly. I plan to raise the stringers 3/4 to 1" and set the new core(greenwood plydek) on top of the lip I left. I have started grinding(and itching) and am stuck wondering how many inches up do I need to grind in order to tape(tab) the new deck to the lip and cap.
First, I would not replace the foam under the deck - leave that area open and you will be better off. You can use if for stowage or whatever, but refoaming just traps moisture under the decking. Actually, using a saw and putting the new deck on top of the old deck "tab" works pretty well on CCPs. A CCP has a full liner and is different from the Osprey versions. You will want to add enough spacer on top of the stringers to meet the new deck height. Regardign greenwood - be careful with that! Epoxy/resin will not bond with some treated or coated wood - you don't want a near term delam!
I am also wondering(and I need to attach some pics) about a "plug" the previous owner put in a thru hull. It is a full repair on the outer. It appears to be a wooden plug(dowel?) used as a core on the inner. The wood seems ok, but unsealed. Should I grind it and glass over it?
Yes, remove the plug and either put in a proper thru-hull or fill it and glass over it.
The thru hull for the scuppers and deck drain also have wood backing that is bare, should I grind these out and glass those spots as well?
Good plan - get rid of bare wood anywhere you find it. You only have access to some of these areas now - it will be a bugger later - so a little work now could save a ton of frustration later!
I have a hundred(exaggerating a bit) of other questions but need to have a little patience(and of course some pics) before I ask any more.
Oh, one more question tonight, I sweat a lot. Is there a respirator that works ok and doesn't clog with sweat? "I am having a hell of a time trying to breathe through all of the moisture.
What kind o respirator are you using? For fiberglass dust you can use a cloth/fiber M95 thatwith a vent port that is pretty comfortable. You don't need a plastic half-face unless you are using solvents.
Thanks!
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I agree with gran. Never leave old rotted wood, it will bit you later. I’m going to rebuild my deck this winter. Since I did a core simple on my stringers at the transoms. I don’t have a problem their. So I ‘m going to try something different. I’m going to cut out the top glass and remove it as one piece. Then dig out the rotted wood. Which on my boat won’t be hard, since its all rotted. That will leave the under layer of glass. I then am going to sand that layer and coat with epoxy to seal. Then resand and add a layer of glass. Then add what ever matl. I decide to use. Then add a layer of glass and the old top layer. That will leave me with original glass deck. Then I will only have to deal with the joint at the gunnels. Then paint. Which will give me the final seal. I see know reason why it won't work. But I have the time to try somthing different. That's what so great about being RETIRED. :thumright:
Hi Saltfly,
So do I understand that you are saying you are going to attempt to remove the entire original inner liner as an assembly; recore, reglass and reassemble basically the way it was built originally? If so, you are going to have to cut the adhesive line that bonded the floor to the top of the stringers to pull it out. Bravo! I've been waiting to see if this could be done!
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No fitz, I’m going to cut the deck glass at the radius were it meets the gunnels. Once that top glass layer is removed. Their will be only rotted wood. Once that is removed. The under layer of glass which is bonded to the stringers will still be their and so will the inner liner from the gunnels up. Only the top glass of the deck part of the inner liner will be removed.
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Hi Saltfly,
So do I understand that you are saying you are going to attempt to remove the entire original inner liner as an assembly; recore, reglass and reassemble basically the way it was built originally? If so, you are going to have to cut the adhesive line that bonded the floor to the top of the stringers to pull it out. Bravo! I've been waiting to see if this could be done!
I've seen the liner separated from the hull and redone at least once, but taking the liner out is a bear. Here's a shot of a 200CCP with the liner cut around the edges for a redeck:
(http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j7/GoneFission/CCPhull1.jpg)
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I'll make it a priority to post some pics tonight. The pic above is almost a spittin image of mine...except I left the deck drain lips and have cut out the bathtub in the back. Oh and right now my stringers are cut wide open and half full of foam.
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If what I’m seeing on my deck is right. I should have only the last or first layer. Depending on how you look at it left. So you should not see the stringers. Only the layer of glass bonded to the stringers. My deck cross section. Looks like a sandwich. Glass, wood then glass. At least that’s what it looks like were the hatches are. you guys that have taken yours apart, know more then I do in that department.
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Deconstruction is mostly over, here are some pics...construction(foam first) has begun.
(http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x474/loribevans/Boat%20Project/2011-07-15_18-09-00_945-1.jpg)
(http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x474/loribevans/Boat%20Project/2011-07-17_18-01-53_781-1.jpg)
In this pic you can see an old deck repair with storage added, but no drains...there were 40-50 gallons in each of the two front compartments they added. The main culprit to wet wood.
(http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x474/loribevans/Boat%20Project/2011-07-18_19-30-32_688.jpg)
(http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x474/loribevans/Boat%20Project/2011-07-19_18-44-36_435-1.jpg)
(http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x474/loribevans/Boat%20Project/2011-07-20_19-33-10_55-1.jpg)
35lb anchor lost under fuel coffin for years
(http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x474/loribevans/Boat%20Project/Picture136-1.jpg)
(http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x474/loribevans/Boat%20Project/Picture144-1.jpg)
(http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x474/loribevans/Boat%20Project/2011-07-25_10-08-14_143-1.jpg)
(http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x474/loribevans/Boat%20Project/2011-08-15_20-59-48_153-1.jpg)
ready for some cutting, grinding, and glassing(and more itching)
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Lots of progress :salut:
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Looking good! I haven't seen my neighbor to ask him his thoughts on the respirator, but I will.
That anchor pic is great!
:lol:
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OK, I trimmed all the foam. I air chiseled the putty off the edges of the stringers and started grinding. I have mat, woven, and 1708. I am not sure what would be the easiest, most cost effective, and best to cap the stringers with. Also...was thinking I should use two layers, one 8-10" laid and one 12" on top of it...will that be enough?
Oh and are there any unwritten pointers to grinding for prep? This is my first dance with fiberglass and already ground through one wall of the first stringer I was grinding...just a little but it happened just the same.
Thanks!
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Wanna,
You are getting a good job thus far. When it comes to the re-glass...just make sure everything is clean and dry.
And if you grind through the stringer sides where they're questionable/thin...so what. Needed to be added to anyway.
Regarding your specific rebuild...am pretty familiar with the 70's models...but the CCP rebuild aspects, and later models...that's where Captain Bob, Gone Fission, JDupree, and other CCP owners can best advise.
This will be good...been awhile since we've seen one torn down.
KM tourney fished an 80's 22-2 in the early 90's. The captain knew the stringers were broken/delammed at the transom when he bought it cheap.
We fished it anyway for three seasons...they're pretty damn stout.
Regarding the glass layup....we're blessed to have great experience here. Am sure they'll best advise when you near that point.
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Capped the stringers today: 4" 1.5 Mat, 8" 1708, 10" 1708.
Happy with my new found glassing skills...pics to come.
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OK have a question. I got a new tank in the mail this past week. I opted for a 63 gal poly. Does it have to be mounted inside a "coffin"?
I was planning to mount it centerline on an encapsulated plywood "shelf" with 6" lips at each end to keep it in place, leaving an inch or so of "expansion play" all the way around it. The ply shelf would be glassed to the stringers the entire length on each side. Then run one aluminum strap over it.
Ideas?
Thanks!
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On one that size I would try to use 2 straps. I wish I would have noticed your location last week, I stayed on 204 at 95 and was in Hinesville training students at Savannah Tech. I would have liked to see your hull. I hope to be back there in a couple of weeks, maybe we can work something out at that time.
Back to the tank, where are the fill and pickup lines on the tank? I would worry more about the poly "swell" on the top of the tank. Make sure you seat the shelf low enough that it can never be hit by the hatch cover or deck.
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On one that size I would try to use 2 straps. I wish I would have noticed your location last week, I stayed on 204 at 95 and was in Hinesville training students at Savannah Tech. I would have liked to see your hull. I hope to be back there in a couple of weeks, maybe we can work something out at that time.
Just lemme know, I'm here unless I'm hunting, working, or @ cub scouts with my boys.
Back to the tank, where are the fill and pickup lines on the tank? I would worry more about the poly "swell" on the top of the tank. Make sure you seat the shelf low enough that it can never be hit by the hatch cover or deck.
Its rectangular 23" wide by 14" deep and 70" or so long. The fill line will be just fore of mid ship, the pickup will be just aft and below the leaning post(I think) hehe. Part of the reason I want to do away with the coffin is because I can actually lower the tank 4-5 inches using the method I outlined above. Then I can install an access panel if I ever need to access or remove the tank.
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OK have a question. I got a new tank in the mail this past week. I opted for a 63 gal poly. Does it have to be mounted inside a "coffin"?
The short answer is no.
That stated, the coffin/tub acts to isolate the tank from the center line of the keel and allow water to traverse from the bow to the stern where it can be removed via the drain plug or a pump. It also has an added benefit of capturing fuel from a leak in the tank and preventing it from entering the bilge but...
It can also trap water that enters from above through a poorly installed/sealed hatch or access plates not to mention the possibility of it retaining small amounts of moisture from tank condensation. In your case though, you are using a poly tank so the moisture retention problems are greatly (if not completely) reduced and you could always drill a relief (drain) hole in the coffin.
I was planning to mount it centerline on an encapsulated plywood "shelf" with 6" lips at each end to keep it in place, leaving an inch or so of "expansion play" all the way around it. The ply shelf would be glassed to the stringers the entire length on each side.
Ideas?
Thanks!
This is the way my WAC is set up and I think it would work for you. Remember that you will need to allow a route for the water to move front to back (under the shelf). Personally, if I were using this method, I would bulkhead each end of the tank (basically creating with the shelf, another "coffin") and convey the water through a 2" pvc pipe. Since you're using poly for the tank, it may be overkill but still, I prefer my tank area as dry as possible. If lowering the tank helps with your rebuild, why not?
Good luck.
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Deconstruction is mostly over, here are some pics...construction(foam first) has begun.
(http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x474/loribevans/Boat%20Project/2011-07-15_18-09-00_945-1.jpg)
(http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x474/loribevans/Boat%20Project/2011-07-17_18-01-53_781-1.jpg)
In this pic you can see an old deck repair with storage added, but no drains...there were 40-50 gallons in each of the two front compartments they added. The main culprit to wet wood.
(http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x474/loribevans/Boat%20Project/2011-07-18_19-30-32_688.jpg)
(http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x474/loribevans/Boat%20Project/2011-07-19_18-44-36_435-1.jpg)
(http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x474/loribevans/Boat%20Project/2011-07-20_19-33-10_55-1.jpg)
35lb anchor lost under fuel coffin for years
(http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x474/loribevans/Boat%20Project/Picture136-1.jpg)
(http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x474/loribevans/Boat%20Project/Picture144-1.jpg)
(http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x474/loribevans/Boat%20Project/2011-07-25_10-08-14_143-1.jpg)
(http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x474/loribevans/Boat%20Project/2011-08-15_20-59-48_153-1.jpg)
ready for some cutting, grinding, and glassing(and more itching)
A little Naval Jelly, and that anchor will be as good as new :shock: That was the PO's spare??? :lol:
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That was the PO's spare??? :lol:
Dunno, it had been stuck under the gas tank coffin for a while.
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Hey guys, I happen to be at the same step in my restore on my '71 170. Concerning the poly tank minus the coffin, I spoke to a local glass guy and he suggested something similar. A 2" pvc cut in half and glassed to the centerline to allow water flow. This should allow for any expandsion of the tank below to the sides. My question is: If I tabbed in bulkheads fore and aft of the tank (snugly), during operation, does anyone think this may create a problem with compression of the tank? There is plenty of space above and this would allow breathing/expanding of the tank.
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SunnyD,
Great progress!!
The bulkheads fore and aft sound fine, but what will the tank rest on?
Just the pvc running down the centerline?
I may have missed something.
I think there should be more support diverted to the stringers and not the hull.
I might run a couple supports between the stringers over the pvc to keep the tank off the hull.
Just my 2 cents.
Kedd
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Thanks Kedd,
The idea he mentioned is a 2 inch cut in half at the centerline (small center part of the tank sits on it) then two smaller pvc about 8-10 inches in from the stringers, all glassed over. the tank would sit on the three pipes glassed over running fore and aft. I still have about 2.5 inches on each side of the tank for expansion and on top. My concern is the bulkheads the tank would sit between are snug. It definetly won't move forward or aft, and the strap would keep it from moving up or side to side. Although I don't think it would flex at all, I was just wondering if I should leave a little wiggle room at those bulkheads. :scratch:
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Sounds good.
I would not leave any room fore and aft.
The top and bottom should be plently for the tank to expand.
I would have some kind of chafe guard between the fore and aft bulkhead and the tank though.
Also under the straps.
If your not going to use the coffin box.
What about cutting off the bottom and glasing it lower and to the stringers for support?
You would have no load on the hull that way.
Just a thought.
This is off the topic.
I just installed a new tank and if I could do it again I would check the tank for debris.
I would pull the sender and check it however you can.
I had metal shavings foul my flowscan sender from.
I figure from tapping.
No harm to the the motor because of the Racor filter after the sender but figured I'd pass it on.
I know your not using a metal tank but I'm sure the same thing could happen with debris.
Kedd
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If your not going to use the coffin box.
What about cutting off the bottom and glasing it lower and to the stringers for support?
You would have no load on the hull that way.
Just a thought.
That's exactly what i did! It's sitting real low. Your idea about chaffing prtection is being headed.
PS, I love this site precisely for this kind of advise. Thanks again Kidd
Steve
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If your not going to use the coffin box.
What about cutting off the bottom and glasing it lower and to the stringers for support?
You would have no load on the hull that way.
Just a thought.
That's exactly what i did! It's sitting real low. Your idea about chaffing prtection is being headed.
PS, I love this site precisely for this kind of advise. Thanks again Kidd
Steve
This is basically the plan I had. I just found a tank that fit between my stringers(23") better than the coffin(20" on the inside) to allow for a better fit and lower mounting(it will be 4 inches off the bottom of the hull). So basically I'll be glassing a "new" "coffin" just using the stringers as the sides and encapsulated ply as the bottom. I have mixed feelings about making full depth bulkheads for and aft of the tank, but will work it out. SunnyD sorry I didn't respond earlier.
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No worries, I have been as busy. Concerning the bulkheads I agree, leaving the bottom open will allow for any residual water to travel toward the bilge area.
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I may be selling this project. It is in the same state as I left this thread. It has been fully tarped and dry since I glassed the stringers. I am unsure if I will be able to find the time to install the floor/deck. It would come with tandem axle aluminum majik tilt trailer. Still not absolute on a sale but if someone is interested please pm me. I love the boat. My kids are just at an age that seems to monopolize my time and money.
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If anyone is interested in this project please let me know. I will be bringing it to the dump next week.
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Hey guys, spread the word to help save this hull from the dump.
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If anyone is interested in this project please let me know. I will be bringing it to the dump next week.
Might be interested in some parts off it. Can you PM me and let me know what you still have? Thanks.
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Wannabe, I am in Atlanta and just bought a 22-2 CCP. Am interested in your hull and parts. Do you still have the boat? Jeff