Classic AquaSport
Aquasport Model Rebuilds, Mods, Updates and Refreshes => Osprey Style Hull Rebuilds => 165/170/175 Rebuilds => Topic started by: Corynelsonflkeys on May 26, 2018, 11:48:44 PM
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Hey guys! I got my first 170 a little over a month ago, I traded a '62 13' Whaler I had been ripping around on for the past year. I put the whaler through hell taking it offshore down here in the keys all winter so it was in need of some fixing so the trade was to my benefit in my opinion but the 170 needs PLENTY of work as well. It came with a 1997 150 Evinrude with a completely fried harness from the regulator shorting out and a deck that had "just been redone and only needs paint." I picked the boat up at night and tried to look it over as much as possible without the mosquitoes of Big Pine carrying me away. I woke up early the next morning before work and realized the deck was done terribly and used honeycomb laid on top of the original deck with plenty of dry spots in the glass that were not dense with resin :embar: I was mildly defeated but have wanted to lay a new deck for the learning experience for quite some time. A month later I ordered a used harness and reg off ebay, chipped off the burnt plastics, put some seafoam in the heads, changed the plugs and it started right up first crank. :whoo: didn't think i'd actually get it to run. It's been raining here all month but I was getting antsy being cooped up so I took her down to the ramp for a little sea trial before I start the deck. Rick told me the 150 would be too much and sure enough, it was! I had absolutely nothing in the boat so it was as light as could be, blowing 25 and scary as hell up in the "tower". I did a few laps around the island with plans on having to swim back but luckily everything went great besides getting pelted with rain. So now time to start the deck plan and tinker with the engine.
I'm still unsure about the 150. Do i sell it and find a 115 or just keep it until it dies and then invest in a newer 4stroke. ...An answer i will have when i can afford a new engine.
The tower is getting turned into a lobster spot in the bay because it's down right frightening to drive from in any waves or chop.
Now for my question to the wise..
How much structural support does the cap provide? I don't want the casting deck nor do I want the sides that come down to the deck. I like seeing bare hull and was thinking about just adding supports to support the cap down to the deck similar to typical commercial boats or most of the 220'
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Congratulations. The 170 is a fun and capable boat. I had a 1985 as my first “offshore” boat. I fished her hard and she took everything. It’s perfect for the keys.
Sell the 150 and get the lightest 90-116 outboard that you can find on her. The 150 is too much weight for the boat, and she doesn’t need that much power. Honestly, you could get away with a 70.
As for removing the liner, it is a lot of work. I did it on my 200 CCP, and it payed off weigh extra space. The liner does add structure, so you will need to add some support for the hull sides and cap. Here’s what I did:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/Sanding_Dust.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16443&title=sanding-dust&cat=500)
You won’t need to use as many stiffeners as I did, maybe three each side. If you’re happy with a workboat finish, you can save yourself some fairing on the hull sides. Only you can decide if it’s worth it.
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When I bought my 170 it had a old merc straight 6 and the decals said 150. That thing would fly - when you stepped out from behind the windshield at WOT you got an instant facelift. ::o: After some research (during the infancy of the internet) I found that the serial # off the engine proved it wasn't a 150, so who knows what the PO had done to it. She was fast though. This was before personal GPS existed also.
So now you know what a boat with too much engine (and weight) is like - something to pass on to the next person that asks. :13: If you can find an old Merc tower of power 115, that is the style engine the boat was designed for - the mounting brackets were thinner and the engines were light.
Cutting the liner out is very simple with a jig saw with Sterling blades. If you're going to leave the cap, as Mshugg said, you'll need to support it somehow. There are plenty of examples in the forums of this - I would think the Flatback forum would be the best place to look because they didn't have liners. You might also look in the "Other Classic Rebuilds" forum and look at what the Proline guys have done.
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I'm still unsure about the 150. Do i sell it and find a 115 or just keep it until it dies and then invest in a newer 4stroke...The tower is getting turned into a lobster spot in the bay because it's down right frightening to drive from in any waves or chop.
The dry weight specs I found on the internet for a 1997 Evinrude 150 is 375lbs, though I'm not quoting this spec weight directly from a '97
Evinrude-published service manual, therefore I'm not 100% this weight is accurate. However, if indeed your engine's dry weight is 375lbs or weighs in this general vicinity, then its dry weight is exactly the same of a Yamaha 115hp of the same year....and this weight I'm 100% sure of.
I mention the above because if your '97 150 does weigh the same as a Yamaha 115 then the engines "weight" was not the cause of the scary ride you experienced. I know this from experience because I have a '98 Yamaha 115hp on my '76 170, and at WOT there isn't anything of the boats performance that would cause me concern for my safety...and I'm a safe boater. Now I would never knock a guy like Rick, he whom has forgotten more AS details than I'll ever know. I do agree with Rick that hanging a 150 on an AS 170 is too much motor. BUT, I believe the aforementioned statement is a generalization...it's not fitting to all 170's and certainly not fitting to every operator of a 170 with a 150hp hung on the transom....meaning the hp of a 150 hung on a AS 170 would be too much power for the average boater.
In the case of your hull, the 150hp, and with that half tower...I'm guessing just by the construction of the tower and the poor condition of the interior hull that the previous owner did not consider or even care what effect the tower would have on the hull's COG....and no doubt with the tower's location being so far forward the original COG has moved forward, which would completely throw off how the hull normally performs while underway in heavy or calm seas. Also and aside from the forward location, the base of the tower is way too high, at least from the pics it looks higher than the gunnels. This excessive height alone would throw of the COG. I have plans to install a half tower in my 170, but at a base height of 13"-15"....the base of your tower looks to be 2.5'-3'!! Then add in the towers location being too far forward is a double whammy. Geez, I bet it was scary. Assuming the motor dry weight is 375lbs, if the Evinrude weighed 100lbs more like current F150's then the tower being so far forward would make sense....in order to compensate for the added 100lbs aft.
So what I advise doing before you even consider ridding of the 150hp because you believe it to be too much power....you stated you plan on ridding of the tower, so I'm assuming this means you'll be installing a typical center console. If so and after installing this console, rig the console with the evinrude controls and take her for a run in CALM conditions. I'm reckoning you'll have an entirely different experience, a more comfortable one because you would have restored the hull's natural COG by removing the tower.
Other than having to replace general maintenance engine parts (gaskets, water pump, fuel pump, etc), another thing to consider is that if you've found your engine to be in good shape, then think of the engine as a gem. 2 strokes in good shape, well maintained, and reliable, are very hard to come by these days. People tell me all the time I should rid of my '98 2 stroke for a newer 4 stroke. My response is always the same..."Why? It's very reliable both starting and performance, it's got more low end than a 4 stroke, it's easier to mechanically troubleshoot than a 4 stroke, and most importantly I can perform all maintenance and repairs myself without the need of a computer program." Just something to think about if you find that your engine is in good shape, just needed some TLC.
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Congrats on the 170, I've owned mine now 20 years best boat I've ever owned I have a 1986 rebuilt Johnson 70 on the back of mine and it flies it will due 30 knots easy with a 17 pitch prop with 3 adults I'm really happy with it. The 70s also great on fuel easy on the wallet, the Yamaha 90 is also a great option its actually lighter than the Johnson 70, good luck with whatever you do have fun.
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Looking like some one is gonna get itchy. Hey i drive down to Stock Island every 2 weeks for work. I will be heading back there soon. If you want to get together and talk 17's let me know. Im redoing the floor at my house up in Pompano Beach
matty
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Looks like you have a good start Matt - have you started a rebuild thread of your own?
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not really. not enough expendable time.
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Well haven't had much time lately but i've got a little progress done over the passed couple months. We have a baby on the way and just moved into a new house so it's been tough to get time but this is what i've got done so far.
Day 1- I ripped the tower and box out. Mainly so i could fit the damn thing under the house.
day 2- Took the floor up and as much of the cement type bonding agent they used to seat the deck to the stringer.
Day 3- Finished chipping away cement. I call it cement because it's pretty much rock solid and hard as a rock.
Day 4- Took a saw to the tops of the stringers and started cutting out foam
Day 5- Spent most of the day pulling out foam and the rotten wood that was glassed to the inside of the stringers. (the bulkhead that runs across had no bottom to it and left the stringer completely exposed to water) and also has a sheet of ply in it >:|
Day 6- Probably just stared at it for a few hours and wondered if i was in over my head at this point.
Went to see some friends at SeaVee and got all the materials i would need for the deck and transom. Well the bulk of what I needed. Ended up getting a full roll of 1708(150lbs), 5 1/2'' 4x8 sheets of foam, 4x8 sheet of 3/4'' Coosa and a few buckets of poly resin.
Made an order with land and sea, got some formula 27 for fairing, some Petit paint, few rolls of cloth tape, couple resin rollers, all my through hull fittings, gas cap, gas vent, bow and stern chocks, pop up cleats, pie eyes, deck hatches, bilge pumps, rod holders, bait pumps, battery switches, switch panels, and i'm sure a few other things I forgot.
So i've spent most of what i plan on spending or at least the bulk of it. Now it's just hours upon hours of labor. Slow season is about to start here in the keys so I'll have quite a bit of down time before the baby comes hopefully!
Day 7- Took a chainsaw to the transom and removed as much of what was left on the skin with chisels and a hammer in under 4-5 hours total.
Day 8- Made a template and cut the Coosa to fit the transom how i plan to have it.
and now, I'm going to sleep.
Feel free to give me your input and insights on anything and everything! I'm turning 25 tomorrow so I appreciate all the wisdom from you older guys I can get!
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(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/2/09C94992-0E50-4BCF-A834-4D4969EA5471.jpeg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17537&title=day-1&cat=2)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/2/811CE9F6-A96D-436E-A4E3-ED2DAAC7379C.jpeg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17538&title=day-1&cat=2)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/2/E033E0B5-6684-4384-B50F-5D6AD67AC347.jpeg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17540&title=day-1&cat=2)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/2/E58F94FF-ADC2-4FD9-8EA4-96A073EF58C7.jpeg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17543&title=no-more-trailer&cat=2)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/2/59B5C311-995B-4F6F-82E4-83EAA4AC5001.jpeg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17541&title=no-more-trailer&cat=2)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/2/703F2390-C468-4CA0-8F73-E87F0AA58822.jpeg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17542&title=no-more-trailer&cat=2)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/2/DF0C2105-F7BA-4A41-81EF-E3E499EEB811.jpeg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17547&title=stringers&cat=2)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/2/E0EECBD1-E40A-4DB0-B6CB-346421A34B07.jpeg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17548&title=stringers&cat=2)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/2/CBC3D93E-DEAE-437C-AFB9-33EC0806AEEB.jpeg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17546&title=stringers&cat=2)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/2/1CA27E1A-9BBC-49B7-97DB-62C88EE84145.jpeg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17550&title=transom-repair&cat=2)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/2/461DC2C2-C367-4B99-9EB5-A3D0999EDB21.png) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17551&title=transom-repair&cat=2)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/2/6ADCD095-522E-47AA-90D3-CA1585C25F7D.png) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17552&title=transom-repair&cat=2)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/2/B261D238-1DC0-4998-8BE5-A2A2FA818751.jpeg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17553&title=transom-repair&cat=2)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/2/036B79C1-4B9F-46F3-A616-2073CFFCAD7F.jpeg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17554&title=coosa-transom&cat=2)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/2/BBF52E94-0DCF-4901-94F4-94D7D3D9E057.jpeg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17556&title=coosa-transom&cat=2)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/2/0C25D263-0AC8-40B1-8196-E0081BB8AB9E.jpeg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17555&title=coosa-transom&cat=2)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/2/C4E9F5C5-5DC6-4247-9B9D-F4EC0BC28B5F.jpeg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17557&title=coosa-transom&cat=2)
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That's a lot of progress!
Tips:
You'll need about 18" exposed from the inside of the transom on the stringers and liner so you can beef up the transom skin, set the core and then glass in the core using 3 layers with 4, 8 and 12" overlaps.
So your boat will drain when you pull the garboard plug after the rebuild:
Here is a link to where I explain the thought of the PVC pipe
http://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=13148.msg133124#msg133124
Here is a link to where I show what is actual problem
http://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=13148.msg133556#msg133556
Here is a link to Hawgleg's rebuild that shows the PVC pipe installation to keep a drain at the new low point of the boat
http://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=13148.msg134262#msg134262
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Looks good. That new transom notch should help keep water out of the boat.
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Okay so I laid 3 sheets of cloth, staggered at 4, 8, and 12 she’s solid she’s solid as a rock again. Next is to lay in the coosa board. Rick, what would would the best process be to sandwich it to the outer skin be? Mainly what filler should I use? And when mixed I was going to use a trowel to spread to ensure no hollows, yay or nay?
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I just did this...check out some of my vids on my build. I used epoxy with cabasol to make "peanut butter". If you use a trowel, go in one direction, probably vertically, so air bubbles can escape. I didnt do that, but someone recommended I do that on my vid.
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Rick, what would would the best process be to sandwich it to the outer skin be? Mainly what filler should I use? And when mixed I was going to use a trowel to spread to ensure no hollows, yay or nay?
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Use epoxy thickened with fumed silica (cabosil) to a mayonnaise consistency. It’s also a good idea to use a knotched trowel to apply the glue. That way you get consistent thickness and it’s less likely that you’ll have voids. Some people also put in a layer of CSM and bond in your transom core while still wet.
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:iagree:
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Alrighty, I canceled my charter today due to wind and decided it was a boat work day. I got the core laid in, pretty sure it went well. I ended up using some of the clean fiberglass dust i had from prepping the skin for the core and a bunch of cabosil, i mixed about 3qts at once and boy was my forearm sore! Next time I will be doing a couple small batches instead. I lucked out and mixed my hardener perfect. It was just starting to kick when I was taking my gloves off. I screwed a few pieces of 2x6 to clamp it down and i had a ton ooze out. Tapped around a bit with my knuckles and it seems to have no hallows. I'll post some pictures after I get it all cleaned up. Next step is a few more sheets of cloth and the start on the stringers.
Oh and about the whole pipe idea, The water is definitely pooling about 10'' forward but i normally jack my trailer up pretty high when I'm rinsing anyway so i'm not too concerned pus where it pools i'm probably going to have a bilge pump.
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Alrighty, I canceled my charter today due to wind and decided it was a boat work day. I got the core laid in, pretty sure it went well. I ended up using some of the clean fiberglass dust i had from prepping the skin for the core and a bunch of cabosil, i mixed about 3qts at once and boy was my forearm sore! Next time I will be doing a couple small batches instead. I lucked out and mixed my hardener perfect. It was just starting to kick when I was taking my gloves off. I screwed a few pieces of 2x6 to clamp it down and i had a ton ooze out. Tapped around a bit with my knuckles and it seems to have no hallows. I'll post some pictures after I get it all cleaned up. Next step is a few more sheets of cloth and the start on the stringers.
Oh and about the whole pipe idea, The water is definitely pooling about 10'' forward but i normally jack my trailer up pretty high when I'm rinsing anyway so i'm not too concerned pus where it pools i'm probably going to have a bilge pump.
Yup, that's the problem caused by all the layers of cloth and core. We had one member that actually drilled a drain through the hull bottom and used a garboard type plug on the inside to get that 1" or more of water out.
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The transom core is in, i only used 1 sheet of 3/4 coosa and i kind of wish I would have cut 2 and sandwiched first but my fiberglass shop here in the keys told me it would be plenty so I'm going to add an extra piece where the engine sits just so i have a little bit more girth there. **Learning experience** But i will add a couple more sheets of 1708 to ensure the strength. It feels rock solid right now with 4 layers of 1.5oz cloth, on the skin, fiberglass dust and silica for putty, 3/4 coosa, 1 layer of 1708. It got dark and i was pretty spent so i called it a night. I then decided before i put too many more layers of glass on i want to tie the stringers back in to ensure strength is transferred into them.
So to the questions.
As you see i have about 2 feet of stringer completely removed. How should i recreate the stringer? Should i just refill the existing stringer with foam and pour out two block and shave them to match and then wrap them in cloth? Or should i buy a sheet of ply and make a mold for the glass?
Before i go any further into this does anyone have strong feelings about only using 3/4'' coosa and 1 1/4'' section where the engine sits? Am i going to regret this later? Engine is still to be determined put either a 2 stroke 130 yamaha for the right price (if anyone has one??) or a 2018 140 suzuki. So we're looking at anywhere from 300-400 lbs back there, I just found a 47 gal fuel tank which is 10 more than what i have now so i might get a little more weight from that if i end up getting it. Otherwise I'll do some battery shifting. I plan on making this boat capable of doing flat bahama and tortuga runs, with a couple friends so that's the purpose of a larger tank.
Also ill be filling in the side cavities with foam before laying the deck down since i'll be doing a completely flat deck they will be water tight .
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/2/BF847F95-1463-453F-93C2-CAF62A2419FB.jpeg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17667&title=transom-and-cap-removal&cat=2)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/2/BDCFA71A-0F5B-4F43-9405-41D879C0484C.jpeg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17666&title=transom-and-cap-removal&cat=2)
I also finally removed the step and cap!
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/2/BF847F95-1463-453F-93C2-CAF62A2419FB.jpeg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17667&title=transom-and-cap-removal&cat=2)
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Don't rely on 1 sheet of anything unless it's 1.5" thick. You don't want anything nasty to happen, especially after you hang a high $ engine on it. I understand Coosa is expensive and if you can't afford another, either wait until you can budget it in or get some marine 3/4 plywood ($80/sheet) and laminate that on top of the whole width, not just where the engine will be. The transom needs to tie into the hull bottom and sides and all become one so when the engine pushes on the "boat" as it moves through the water everything is strong enough to take the power.
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For the amount of effort and money you are going to put into this boat, going with another 3/4" of something is worth it, even just for piece of mind. One day you'll see a small spider crack on transom and it'll freak you out because your not confident now. You probably have plenty of other work to do while you wait on a piece of Coosa to be delivered, so order a sheet (or go with marine ply like Rick said).
What I plan on doing to tie my stringers back in is to use cardboard to make "molds" in the shape I want for the stringers, poor some foam, them carve it to size and glass.
Good luck!
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You definitely want to add another sheet of core. Coosa reccomnds that you match the lhickness of the original core. Another sheet of 1/2” Coosa would get you there, but 3/4” is significantly stronger without adding much more weight and cost.
As for your stringers, the easiest option would be to clean out and tab in the sections that you removed. Then, use a hole saw to drill an access to pour in 2-part foam. Four pound density would be a good replacement for what was there.
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That's why i love you guys! I was doubting my glass shops faith in one layer of 3/4 coosa, i got a pretty good deal i think i paid like 220 for it so i don't mind grabbing another one. I'll be chartering this boat so it needs to be done right and i'm way under budget thus far so a 1 sheet of coosa isn't going to kill me. So i will buff out the the existing piece i put in and sandwhich another piece. More practice for the next project anyway!
Mercel, i think that's what i'm going to do as well for the stringers i assume that'll be the easiest way to go about it.
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Ended up getting a full roll of 1708(150lbs), 5 1/2'' 4x8 sheets of foam, 4x8 sheet of 3/4'' Coosa and a few buckets of poly resin.
So you found out that a 4x8 sheet isn't enough to do 2 layers (I did too but with marine plywood), so I can see why you wanted to try one layer.
The poly thing, ... You need to make sure you use 3/4 or 1.5oz CSM with the 1708 because CSM melts (the binders do) with/into the poly but the 1708 doesn't (1708 has a 3/4oz layer of csm sewn in on one side). Being that the 1708 has a layer of CSM on one side you need to scuff into the shiny side (the side that doesn't have the "scrim" attached - I think I saw that on your rebuild pics) of the 1708 enough to allow the CSM on the next layer to bind to the poly on the previous layer.
Here is a pic of my 2 layers of marine plywood with 3/4oz+1708+3/4oz between them - I used poly also in this portion.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/IMG_2794.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16504&title=img-2794&cat=646)
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Haven't picked up the new sheet of coosa yet so i had a day off and decided i'd get working on some other stuff for now.
I spent the past two evenings sanding the entire inside of the hull and deciding what parts of the stringers will stay and what will go.
Since i started this project I only planned to do the deck and it has turned into a full restore. If I looked at this as a full bare hull restore from the start, i feel i would have saved a lot more time and just tore the whole thing apart right off the rip. But i've tried to salvage what i could that is still structurally sound instead.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/2/96F8DA62-010B-480C-BB6D-6276D18042FC.jpeg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17689&title=hull-prep-for-new-glass&cat=2)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/2/5CDF6B7B-5A5A-4771-BCE6-AFF11F967F1A.jpeg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17687&title=hull-prep-for-new-glass&cat=2)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/2/1689D47D-939B-48E6-8CE5-5EFF412212BD.jpeg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17686&title=hull-prep-for-new-glass&cat=2)
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Rick, i noticed on your build you had a little bit of wood glassed around the edge of the hull where the cap meets. I had a piece in there as well that was pretty rotten. With the way i'm doing the cap (Like larger models) any ideas or suggestions on how to reinforce it? I was going to add a couple inches of foam where the wood was and glass it to the hull and then reinforce the cap itself with another sheet of glass or two and then brace from the floor up.
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This is the area I'm referring to...
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/2/0D014157-756C-442F-90D6-9FBFB3DCCED4.jpeg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17696&title=0d014157-756c-442f-90d6-9fbfb3dcced4&cat=2)
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Foam doesn't really add anything when it comes to screw retention. You might consider doing what I did on my CCP. I cleaned out all the wood down to clean glass and laminated in strips 1708, 4 layers aft and 6 in the bow all tabbed in with a 4" strip. It holds screws just fine and it's rot proof.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/Hull:Deck_Reenforcement_2.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=14546&title=hull-2fdeck-reenforcement-new&cat=500)
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Mshugg, when you laid all that 1708 in there how do you make sure the hull shape stayed the same?
I just laid the second piece of 3/4 coosa in transom(picture below), went a lot smoother than the first time that's for sure. Tomorrow or sunday after i lay a couple sheets of glass on transom i will be filling in the stringers with foam and getting ready to glass the entire inside of the hull.
My main concern and question i have with this step is should i be worrying about my hull shape being close to perfect to the cap? I didn't put braces supporting the beam. If i lay 1708 without the cap on, will it be a struggle to get the cap back on? Should i take measurements and make braces before i do it? The braces are just a PIA to constantly walk over or under.
-----I guess i should mention i have the boat supported with boat jacks on the two aft corners and a 2x6 brace about 4' long on each side of hull underneath the stringers(aft near where the stringers delamed and was flexing under weight) two jacks underneath where the step up would be and a stack of blocks under the forward most part of the keel.(I'll just post a picture below..
Second piece of 3/4 coosa to the transom
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/2/D0CD7456-0808-47C0-A817-1E00EF496CD5.jpeg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17701&title=d0cd7456-0808-47c0-a817-1e00ef496cd5&cat=2)
I drew in blue where the supports are, This is an older picture before i added them.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/2/74DDD4AB-3B5A-4E97-BED7-66D0402D427E.png) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17702&title=74ddd4ab-3b5a-4e97-bed7-66d0402d427e&cat=2)
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I had 2 bad pieces of wood at the very front of the top rim that I replaced. Otherwise the rest was good. That area you have your hand on looks really thick - is the hull that thick there and below that spot?
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Mshugg, when you laid all that 1708 in there how do you make sure the hull shape stayed the same?
I just laid the second piece of 3/4 coosa in transom(picture below), went a lot smoother than the first time that's for sure. Tomorrow or sunday after i lay a couple sheets of glass on transom i will be filling in the stringers with foam and getting ready to glass the entire inside of the hull.
My main concern and question i have with this step is should i be worrying about my hull shape being close to perfect to the cap? I didn't put braces supporting the beam. If i lay 1708 without the cap on, will it be a struggle to get the cap back on? Should i take measurements and make braces before i do it? The braces are just a PIA to constantly walk over or under.
-----I guess i should mention i have the boat supported with boat jacks on the two aft corners and a 2x6 brace about 4' long on each side of hull underneath the stringers(aft near where the stringers delamed and was flexing under weight) two jacks underneath where the step up would be and a stack of blocks under the forward most part of the keel.(I'll just post a picture below..
Second piece of 3/4 coosa to the transom
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/2/D0CD7456-0808-47C0-A817-1E00EF496CD5.jpeg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17701&title=d0cd7456-0808-47c0-a817-1e00ef496cd5&cat=2)
I drew in blue where the supports are, This is an older picture before i added them.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/2/74DDD4AB-3B5A-4E97-BED7-66D0402D427E.png) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17702&title=74ddd4ab-3b5a-4e97-bed7-66d0402d427e&cat=2)
I did take steps to block my hull in place prior to removing any major structure. My liner, sole transom and stringers stayed in place until I had boat stands under the transom at the chines, boat stands forward, and my keel was supported in 3 places. My transom was rebuilt and my stringers tied in before I added the reenforcement along the hull/deck seam. I also took measurements at 4 points to be certain the beam stayed the same.
With that said, the reenforcement didn’t completely stiffen the upper hull sides. They remained flexible until I added other hull stiffeners, so I wouldn’t worry too much about adding 1/4” or so of glass strips for screwing. Another option, that some higher end builders use, would be to glass strips of aluminum into the hull to receive the screws. I chose not to do aluminum, because of corrosion potential, but it would work too. Just glassing in strips of 1/4” plywood works too. The original wood lasted a long time. You definitely have options.
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That area you have your hand on looks really thick - is the hull that thick there and below that spot?
No it’s not that thick, I was pulling it down to show that it was rotten and peeling off. With both inside and out of my hull sanded I can see right through it. I’ll probably add 2 or 3 sheets of cloth around the entire inside. Think that should be enough?
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Ahhh, perfectly clear after you point that out :embar:
Yeah, I'd cut that inner floppy part out and Michael has a good idea in using laminated strips of glass. As long as you don't modify the outer hull sides, the cap should fit. usually when you pull the cap off you run pieces of wood across the top of the hull to keep the shape. then you stiffen/ lock the shape in by adding layers of cloth. If you look at the underside of the cap there is about 1 1/2" of room for the shoebox to fit over the hullsides.
As for # of layers of cloth on the hull I did one when the hull was completely gutted, and I was using epoxy. Looks like you're using poly, correct? If so, maybe 2 on the hullsides and do it wet on wet and run from top of hullside through chine and to the stringer.
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Also if you are concerned about screws holding, you can use nylon lock nut's and bolts...little more work, but solid. My FB's cap is both screwed and bolted down.
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I think I will be going with Michaels idea of laming up a bunch of strips but I wasn’t exactly concerned with the integrity of the bolts, I was pondering more towards supporting the actual cap itself (since it won’t be connected to the floor anymore. But I guess once I restore the cap and lay a bit more glass in it and add a few supports It’ll be stiff. I was actually thinking about just glassing the cap on rather than screwing. Everything with be composite so I have no plan of every taking it off and I will be glassing in two boxes in the rear corners.
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If you’re glassing the cap on, you won’t need to build up much thickness at all since there’s no need for screw retention.
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Quick little update..
Had a day to spare on monday and started pouring my stringers and put two sheets of 1708 on them.
I finished forming the stringers at about 3pm i ended up using 4 gallons total(A+B)
Placed the 2 sheets of cloth and marked them. Started from the outside-in and it went pretty smooth, didn't brush resin on the inside of the stringer until everything else was already wet so i didn't make much of a mess but i used a full 5 gal bucket of resin. I would have kept adding more cloth but i had no resin left... and it was 3:30am. they're not perfect by any means but tomorrow i'll sand them down and fix any air pockets, i also plan to raise the deck a couple inches since i'll be putting a bigger engine so i'm trying to figure out how to go about that. I should have just poured more foam higher but i figured i could just ad something after i got a couple sheets to get the stringer reattached to the hull. Lessons learned. I also ran out of pour foam.
Here's a couple pictures
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/2/463FA59E-C65A-480D-B58E-2E77D9B62CB6.jpeg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17724&title=463fa59e-c65a-480d-b58e-2e77d9b62cb6&cat=2)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/2/04F2940D-0CF4-4B0D-A8EC-6CBA16BFE053.jpeg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17723&title=04f2940d-0cf4-4b0d-a8ec-6cba16bfe053&cat=2)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/2/62C6BF95-84D4-4BC0-8C54-3EDC8622C8EC.jpeg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17725&title=62c6bf95-84d4-4bc0-8c54-3edc8622c8ec&cat=2)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/2/9B9164EF-DCE9-42EC-9C13-95996F9FFDCC.jpeg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17726&title=9b9164ef-dce9-42ec-9c13-95996f9ffdcc&cat=2)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/2/6CF8E9BA-8FDD-4134-B718-8C8D55968F55.jpeg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17728&title=6cf8e9ba-8fdd-4134-b718-8c8d55968f55&cat=2)
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Nice! How did you extend your stringers back to your transom? And for raising the floor, someone on here raised theirs by cutting 4x4 white PVC fence post in half, putting them on top of stringers, and glassing them down. Seems like a good route I may take.
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I took a 4x8 sheet of.... the stuff you wrap cabinets in..super thin and shiny on one side..and cut it to match the stringersides, braced it with pieces of 1x1 and 2x4 and then poured foam, pulled the boards off and shaped them with a sawzaw and hit em with a sander to smooth the edges. It worked great and I would highly recommend it! To add the extra 2inches I think I’ll just grab an extra pour foam and do the same thing, the more float the better for me. I’ll also be foaming in the gap between the stringers and the outer walls anyway.
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Formica?
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Yes! Formica with white on the outer side. It was like $10 for a 4x8 sheet. It stuck a little bit but pulled off easy enough.
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Sanded down everything yet again and prepped for more 1708 tomorrow. Also got the center stringer completely removed and sanded down. Made a new one out of coosa. I only used 1 piece of coosa but i think tomorrow i'll cut another matching piece and double it up. I cut and laid all the 1708 for the hull walls as well. Also cut and fit a bulkhead but don't plan to put it in until i raise the stringers.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/2/96D6A068-9E12-4CEC-9EE1-2BF51871F60B.jpeg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17730&title=96d6a068-9e12-4cec-9ee1-2bf51871f60b&cat=2)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/2/D96A28EF-E4AC-46CC-A3FD-448614E975E9.jpeg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17731&title=d96a28ef-e4ac-46cc-a3fd-448614e975e9&cat=2)
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Looks good - that'll help stiffen it up. Are you going to lay in glass on the hull bottom on the outside of the stringers?
Did you get the cloth wet out soon after? Don't leave the glass exposed for long periods (days) or it'll absorb moisture.
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Looks good - that'll help stiffen it up. Are you going to lay in glass on the hull bottom on the outside of the stringers?
Did you get the cloth wet out soon after? Don't leave the glass exposed for long periods (days) or it'll absorb moisture.
When I laid up the stringers the cloth went to the walls and in some spots a few inches up the walls(see previous pictures) and about 6'' below the stringer as well so the cloth you see in the pictures is all overlapping a couple-few inches. I put the cloth out yesterday and was meant to do it today but had a propane tank blow up in my face last night(all is well just a few flash burns) but i put a tarp over the entire boat and it's pretty windy so the humidity isn't too terrible at the moment. Do you think the tarp will be enough? I also have my entire roll on a rack similar to the one you built but i keep it covered in cardboard and plastice. I haven't had a problem yet but if it is not advised i will move it. **Remember, all of this is under my house which is completely covered in trees and can not get wet
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Ahhh, I see the other pics where you lam'd up the stringers. Sorry for the confusion.
Sounds like you protected the raw cloth - I would expedite wetting it out though. I remember cutting some glass one day and it looked like rain and knew I didn't have time to wet it out, so I removed it, rolled it up and took it into the shop 'til the next day.
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looking good so far.. i just picked up a 73 170 myself that needs some floor work. i have almost my whole cap loose except where it is on the transom which i will have to figure out where i am going to cut it.. do most of these boats have flexible sides behind the rod holders? my sides were able to be pushed in fairly easy before taking the cap loose..
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looking good so far.. i just picked up a 73 170 myself that needs some floor work. i have almost my whole cap loose except where it is on the transom which i will have to figure out where i am going to cut it.. do most of these boats have flexible sides behind the rod holders? my sides were able to be pushed in fairly easy before taking the cap loose..
Yes they do, the hull walls and cap walls are only a couple sheets of matting thick. And with it being 45 years old it's probably a little more flexible than fresh from factory. The integrity of the glass is still great though. I'm adding layers of 1708 to mine because i will not be having my deck connect to the floor and will be braced like the larger models.
I've almost got the whole thing laid with new glass. One more after work session and the center stringer will be finished and start working on rigging tubes and fuel tank.
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gotcha yea i figured if i was going to redo the floor i might as well bite the bullet and pull the cap so i can reinforce the sides since they are without a doubt flimsy over the years
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Well after a few months of fishing non stop, I've had some time to work on my own boat a little bit recently. We also just had our baby girl who's 3 1/2 months old now so time was non existent for that past few months anyway.
I finished glassing the stringers and outside of the hull then ran some some rigging tubes and filled in a little bit of foam. Never really got a picture but also put a brand new fuel tank i built in that measured 58''x20''x10'' I think the exact measurements came out to about 39 gallons give or take. If anyone wants to see pictures i can find some.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/2/324F4B52-AEC4-447B-A311-88AC152741D9.jpeg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=18028&title=324f4b52-aec4-447b-a311-88ac152741d9&cat=2)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/2/3CA93E32-3578-47F6-A831-DC37A3FE3EAA.jpeg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=18029&title=3ca93e32-3578-47f6-a831-dc37a3fe3eaa&cat=2)
Then cut out the deck with 3/4 foam and joined it with strips of 1708 and then put a single layer of 1708 on the bottom and 2 layers on top.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/2/0DE7A755-E99D-4858-A077-E929FEBD8956.jpeg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=18027&title=0de7a755-e99d-4858-a077-e929febd8956&cat=2)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/2/F3E8D434-6CE0-4EC5-9F26-2F3D19EAEE16.jpeg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=18031&title=f3e8d434-6ce0-4ec5-9f26-2f3d19eaee16&cat=2)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/2/ACE90652-405F-4921-997B-1020CEAB0075.jpeg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=18030&title=ace90652-405f-4921-997b-1020ceab0075&cat=2)
Then I decided to trash the old cap and make a new one out of 3/4 marine ply. I was going to do it with foam and save some weight but I would rather have the strength from the wood. I cut the pieces first and than glassed them with 1708 on top and 1.5 oz cloth on the bottom. I really wish i glassed the whole sheet of ply first and then cut. Lesson learned! Would have saved me a lot of time but i did remember to do it for my support braces and made templates and cut them out of a pre glassed sheet. Also made a mock up of my planned console for size and weight distribution reference.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/2/660C65C0-30A2-4181-A5FD-58F94775D40C.jpeg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=18032&title=660c65c0-30a2-4181-a5fd-58f94775d40c&cat=2)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/2/887E5832-6499-4144-92E8-09BF72345E1F.jpeg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=18034&title=887e5832-6499-4144-92e8-09bf72345e1f&cat=2)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/2/844F66CE-BC24-47EA-9BAF-805D05B255CE.jpeg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=18033&title=844f66ce-bc24-47ea-9baf-805d05b255ce&cat=2)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/2/FD1996DD-BC68-4C17-A99C-D78E47398AD8.jpeg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=18035&title=fd1996dd-bc68-4c17-a99c-d78e47398ad8&cat=2)
Today and yesterday i glassed the deck down with thickened resin on the stringers, foam, bulkheads and floor supports. i didn't get many pictures of what everything looked like before i put the deck down. I painted the bilge with grey epoxy bilge paint and added 2x2 supports that i glassed to the outer skin for the edge of the deck to sit on and then covered everything that made contact with thickened resin (cab., teak shavings from another project,and fiberglass dust) pretty much just made the muddiest thing i could. i probably used 2-3 gallons of resin. then put a :*: ton of weight on the whole thing. It's been cold so i mixed it hot as hell and it still took all night to kick. the next day I filled the gap with the same stuff and used a 2'' pvc pipe to make a nice transition and used 4'' 8oz mat tape on the seem and some 6'' 4oz mat tape over that. Aslo glassed in the bow supports and the front anchor locker bulkhead. Then mounted the motor and splashed it to see where the waterline was... I forgot to seal my thru hull fittings first :think: but had a few minutes to see how deep it was sitting and it looks like the scuppers will be above water. :thumleft: That's all for now! Time to go back to work for a few more weeks and plan on the next few pieces before i start fairing.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/2/26D8D5AE-FC44-493A-BADD-AF04EF7BFB90.jpeg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=18036&title=26d8d5ae-fc44-493a-badd-af04ef7bfb90&cat=2)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/2/52B114F0-E8D9-41B9-9AB7-AF5E08926329.jpeg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=18037&title=52b114f0-e8d9-41b9-9ab7-af5e08926329&cat=2)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/2/97D99AC6-D4D8-49ED-9AF4-17D43875FC67.jpeg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=18039&title=97d99ac6-d4d8-49ed-9af4-17d43875fc67&cat=2)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/2/7CEC42F2-94FD-4CD4-B069-191901E46812.jpeg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=18038&title=7cec42f2-94fd-4cd4-b069-191901e46812&cat=2)
Still tweaking the gunnel supports before i glass them in. I might build a couple out of teak for the midship rod holders and ill be boxing in the transom corners for clean covered rigging tubes. and storage.
I also finally bought an engine!! (the one pictured) a captain in town took it to a local mechanic and they said it needed at least $3k in parts and labor so i got this engine for a steal for just $1k! I had it on a stand, hooked it to a battery, and the only info i had was there was a serious wiring problem. I tested the compression first, changed the oil and cleaned on plugs. i jumped the starter with a test wire and it started up first crank. In my diagnostics i found the the positive pin on the wiring harness plug was rusted and the rectifier plug had the same problem I ordered a $500 new wiring harness from Boats.net and a new rectifier and it's good as new now. So i spent $1700 on a great running 115 yamaha 4 stroke with perfect compression. Gotta love the shatty lazy mechanics of the florida keys! :sign0151:
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Wow, that's a lot of progress. Looks good. :thumleft:
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nice, looking forward to more pictures as you progress.
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Moving right along. Looking good, and nice score on the motor!
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Great work and great progress!
//Lars
:thumleft:
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Okay so it's been a long season, i've fished everyday since April and summer is finally almost over and it's time for slow season boat work again. (Unfortunately, it's still 90 degrees) It was a fun summer though! I spent two months in the bahamas and two weeks in Cuba. I caught 40+ marlin and many of slammer dolphin over 50lbs! I've got loads of pictures on my Instagram if anyone wants to check those out or link up. @corryyyyyyy
But anyway, I did a bunch of stuff to the boat over the past few days. I made the console out of 3/4 foam and glassed it in, ran necessary lines for a sea trial (stearing, battery cables, bilge pump, guages, etc) i wanted to do some sea trialing with the boat since i did so many modifications to the original 170 design and added a 115 4 stroke. im going to take it out in various conditions over the next week or so and make sure all my glass work isn't cracking or pulling anywhere, make sure weight is dispersed evenly, and pretty much figure out how i want everything laid out before i finalize and start fairing and painting.. and im sick of not being able to take this ting for a spin so i got impatient and decided to go play. Heres what i've got for pictures. Let me know what you think!
BTW: anyone that doubts putting a 4stroke 115 on it sould try it out, im sitting 2'' inches above the waterline, even with my 240lbs buddy and I(170lbs) two AGM 31 series batteries(120ish.lbs), 120 Yeti filled with tools(80lbs) and a 39gal fuel tank. (The bottom of the tape in the pictures is the previous boot stripe, the top of the tape is where the deck sits)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/539/1D597143-E0F1-402C-9CE5-5DE7BD1B52C0.jpeg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=19091&title=1d597143-e0f1-402c-9ce5-5de7bd1b52c0&cat=539)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/539/8A289FCF-F1F1-40A0-87D3-B61B4C2F77D9.jpeg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=19092&title=8a289fcf-f1f1-40a0-87d3-b61b4c2f77d9&cat=539)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/539/F1C0A213-8320-4934-A4C9-BA20A962E927.jpeg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=19094&title=f1c0a213-8320-4934-a4c9-ba20a962e927&cat=539)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/539/DE41C50E-2264-4D62-8F4F-A5B9A3CA34C1.jpeg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=19093&title=de41c50e-2264-4d62-8f4f-a5b9a3ca34c1&cat=539)
[url(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/539/F1C0A213-8320-4934-A4C9-BA20A962E927.jpeg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=19094&title=f1c0a213-8320-4934-a4c9-ba20a962e927&cat=539)=http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=19095&title=f415d128-7075-4e31-9e8a-66454db736f9&cat=539](http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/539/F415D128-7075-4E31-9E8A-66454DB736F9.jpeg)[/url]
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/539/D56E76BF-3F61-4C99-8D82-65EC434FDCA2.jpeg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=19100&title=d56e76bf-3f61-4c99-8d82-65ec434fdca2&cat=539)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/539/89237507-3621-4385-81CD-2DE8FCB8DB11.jpeg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=19102&title=89237507-3621-4385-81cd-2de8fcb8db11&cat=539)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/539/408E79CE-8708-447D-B21F-814441BE4504.jpeg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=19107&title=408e79ce-8708-447d-b21f-814441be4504&cat=539)
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Oh and i was running dead nuts 40mph at wide open 5800 and about 27-30 at 3500 no porpoising due to having the added weight up on the bow with the console being so far forward. i want space in the stern not the bow, hence why i put the console forward. and it'll have a 100 gal well as a seat in the winter for sailfish. overall i am very impressed. this is my first build but i owe it all to the hull, such a great design. It slid a little in turns while going fast but digs down good if im going under 30
Short clip from today
https://youtu.be/pjAImgER0PQ
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Your boat is looking great. Those are some impressive performance numbers too.
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She's coming along nicely - good job.
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Great job!
//Lars