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Author Topic: 1987 170 Rebuild  (Read 3127 times)

June 16, 2021, 07:44:28 AM
Reply #30

RickK

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Re: 1987 170 Rebuild
« Reply #30 on: June 16, 2021, 07:44:28 AM »
Ed - if you have basic carpentry skills you'll be fine - just don't make the process harder that it is. I had zero experience with fiberglass either but could build stuff out of wood.
Epoxy is not a guessing game - it's either 2:1 mix, 3:1 or 4:1. Usually the question that comes up is how much do I mix when using 1708. I was advised to weigh the cloth. I found that if I weighed the cloth (I ordered a digital postal scale) total I could calculate what I needed to mix pretty accurately. Here is an example: I was setting up to do the casting deck hatch, I cut and pleated all the cloth and then weighed it.
https://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=10101.msg118965#msg118965
The total weight was 49.3oz and since I had a couple other things to wet out I added a little over 6 oz. 1708 uses 2+ oz of resin to be saturated per yard so I divided the weight by 3 and the result was I needed to mix 18.6 oz (18oz since I had some excess in the weight). came out with little extra. Extra with epoxy is money wasted (although I wasted my share of epoxy).

Not sure what else you have to do right away but as Mike advised, try something small to start with.
Rick
1971 "170" with 115 Johnson (It's usable but not 100% finished)

1992 230 Explorer with 250 Yamaha

June 17, 2021, 01:27:20 PM
Reply #31

sowers22

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Re: 1987 170 Rebuild
« Reply #31 on: June 17, 2021, 01:27:20 PM »
Hey Rickk
Want to redo another 170 this winter !!??
I need to replace the whole floor and get some weight out of her! :you_rock:
$ 1976 Aquasport 170 $

June 17, 2021, 05:18:27 PM
Reply #32

RickK

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Re: 1987 170 Rebuild
« Reply #32 on: June 17, 2021, 05:18:27 PM »
Hey Rickk
Want to redo another 170 this winter !!??
I need to replace the whole floor and get some weight out of her! :you_rock:
Thanks man but I'll pass. Reach out to dirtwheelsfl - he is a master rebuilder here and has documented a lot of his work here and not just aquasports.
Rick
1971 "170" with 115 Johnson (It's usable but not 100% finished)

1992 230 Explorer with 250 Yamaha

June 21, 2021, 07:45:31 PM
Reply #33

AquasportEd

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Re: 1987 170 Rebuild
« Reply #33 on: June 21, 2021, 07:45:31 PM »
Just a quick update, haven't made much progress on the boat. My truck needed some attention, so the past few days ive been ordering parts and turning wrenches.

Have a camping trip lined up the next couple weekends so Im not sure how much time ill have to be grinding on the boat, but hoping to really get moving once the schedule frees up.

July 11, 2021, 03:23:41 PM
Reply #34

AquasportEd

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Re: 1987 170 Rebuild
« Reply #34 on: July 11, 2021, 03:23:41 PM »
So after a couple weekends of fishing and camping, it was back to the grid. Went to Harbor Freight yesterday and picked up an angle grinder and various disks. Started today by removing the remainder of the stringers, chiseling away what was left of the transom core wood, and started grinding in prep for new glass.

Ive heard grinding glass is messy, but boy was I unprepared for it. I was able to get a chunk done, but ultimately the dust got to me. Im hoping that tomorrow I can: buy a full painters suite, buy some glass and epoxy, and finish grinding in prep to lay new glass.




July 11, 2021, 08:42:17 PM
Reply #35

RickK

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Re: 1987 170 Rebuild
« Reply #35 on: July 11, 2021, 08:42:17 PM »
Nice progress  :salut2:
After you grind the gray bit out of the center, it's time to glue in a 1 1/4" ID 12" long PVC pipe into the bottom of the hull. Here is a link to where I explain the thought of the PVC pipe
http://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=13148.msg133124#msg133124

Here is a link to where I show what is actual problem
http://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=13148.msg133556#msg133556

Here is a link to Hawgleg's rebuild that shows the PVC pipe installation to keep a drain at the new low point of the boat
http://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=13148.msg134262#msg134262
Rick
1971 "170" with 115 Johnson (It's usable but not 100% finished)

1992 230 Explorer with 250 Yamaha

July 12, 2021, 10:33:08 AM
Reply #36

AquasportEd

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Re: 1987 170 Rebuild
« Reply #36 on: July 12, 2021, 10:33:08 AM »
Rickk,

As for the layup of glass. Looks like my local supplier has 6oz cloth in 38in rolls, as well as 3/4oz CSM in 38in rolls. So Im shooting for 3 layers of the 6oz + 1 layer of the CSM.

I checked out the PVC pipe threads, and understand the issue. But is the piece of PVC the whole drain (i.e. is there any sort of fitting or flange that is put on the outside, or is the idea to put the expandable plug directly in the pvc)?

July 12, 2021, 11:25:56 AM
Reply #37

RickK

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Re: 1987 170 Rebuild
« Reply #37 on: July 12, 2021, 11:25:56 AM »
6oz glass is used for finishing, don't need but you could use a layer as the last layer on the very inside of the boat. The 1708 is 17oz with a layer of 3/4oz CSM sewn in on one side. You may not need a whole roll and can buy it by the running foot (doesn't matter the width - 38 or 50). Measure across the transom at the top and add 24" and multiply x3 for the length you need. That is for the outside lamination, now multiply by 3 again to get the total you'll need for all of the laminations of the transom - 3 outside and 3 inside.
I would plan 1708 with the CSM facing out as my first layer against the melamine and then 2 more layers with the CSM facing aft. I would plan on buying a few more yards because you'll have stuff to laminate as the build progresses and that'll save you a trip back to buy more.
Pipe - 2 options - 1)glue the pipe down to the hull bottom and run it through the remaining lip a little (I see that the drain hole is partially still there). Make sure you press the thickened epoxy (glue) around the pipe especially at the penetration through the lip so it is sealed. Then you trim the glass so it fits pretty snug around the pipe or 2) You can wet out the first layer of 1708 and then glue in the pipe so it is covered on the end with glass, then lay in and wet out the next 2 layers of cloth. The inside of the pipe will end up being your drain and you mount a garboard drain plug over the outside end.
If you have more questions, fire away.
Rick
1971 "170" with 115 Johnson (It's usable but not 100% finished)

1992 230 Explorer with 250 Yamaha

July 12, 2021, 12:33:49 PM
Reply #38

AquasportEd

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Re: 1987 170 Rebuild
« Reply #38 on: July 12, 2021, 12:33:49 PM »
Hmm, might have to do some homework on other glass suppliers in my area. Looks like the place I know of (Defender Marine) only carries 6 or 10oz cloth and 3/4 or 1.5oz CSM. I dont see 1708 in their inventory.

Jamestown Distributors has 1708 in 38in rolls online. I may go that route as it appears it will ship free. Might take a bit longer, but Id obviously rather get the right stuff for the job. Based on my quick measurements, a 25 yard spool should cover 3 layers outside, and 3 layers inside. Shopping list below, also going to add some epoxy rollers and mixing cups/pumps

Glass:
https://www.jamestowndistributors.com/product/product-detail/1441

Epoxy:
https://www.jamestowndistributors.com/product/product-detail/64341
https://www.jamestowndistributors.com/product/product-detail/64342

Putty:
https://www.jamestowndistributors.com/product/product-detail/97692
https://www.jamestowndistributors.com/product/product-detail/97694


July 12, 2021, 02:39:41 PM
Reply #39

RickK

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Re: 1987 170 Rebuild
« Reply #39 on: July 12, 2021, 02:39:41 PM »
So let me take a swag here - your beam is 6'10" so round up to 7' + 2'=9' x 6=54'/3 = 18 yards. So you'd have roughly 7 yards for other projects on the boat.

Where are you located Ed? Do you have any marine surplus places around there?
Rick
1971 "170" with 115 Johnson (It's usable but not 100% finished)

1992 230 Explorer with 250 Yamaha

July 12, 2021, 03:39:37 PM
Reply #40

AquasportEd

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Re: 1987 170 Rebuild
« Reply #40 on: July 12, 2021, 03:39:37 PM »
18 yards was the number i came up with as well. I figured Ill always need more so the spool of 25yds made sense to me.

Im located in CT, Defender Marine was my go to for boating supplies but their glass selection doesnt look great. I have a couple of marinas in my area and could ask them. But the prices from Jamestown didnt seem terribly out of whack.

Did some more grinding today, and got it pretty well down to where i think it should be. Also made a decent lip around the edge to transition. Only real question is, there is a wood pedestal in the center where Im guessing the bilge pump was mounted. Is it fine to just lay glass on top of that?



July 12, 2021, 04:51:42 PM
Reply #41

RickK

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Re: 1987 170 Rebuild
« Reply #41 on: July 12, 2021, 04:51:42 PM »
Looks great.  If you're talking about the grey round spot, I wouldn't worry about that, the pipe will be glued in that spot anyway. Have you purchased the melamine yet (might want to be sitting down when you see the price for that).
The prices at Jamestown look good, especially if they cover shipping. I compared them to US Composites and the prices seem comparable  but shipping is not included with US Composites (good example of the buying power of a Big company compared to a small company). http://www.uscomposites.com/specialty.html

Another national company is composites one - someone told me they deliver to his house or garage...https://www.compositesone.com/product/
Rick
1971 "170" with 115 Johnson (It's usable but not 100% finished)

1992 230 Explorer with 250 Yamaha

July 15, 2021, 12:15:40 PM
Reply #42

AquasportEd

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Re: 1987 170 Rebuild
« Reply #42 on: July 15, 2021, 12:15:40 PM »
Hoping to pick up the melamine today. Glass and mold release arrived yesterday and resin is expected today. Weather looks like it may cooperate this weekend. Im assuming all 3 layers of glass should be laid at more or less the same time (wet out the first layer and roll out bubbles, add second layer and wet out etc..)? I do not have the core material yet, does it matter if that doesn't get adhered for another week (or more)?

July 15, 2021, 03:19:24 PM
Reply #43

RickK

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Re: 1987 170 Rebuild
« Reply #43 on: July 15, 2021, 03:19:24 PM »
You have the right plan. You need to mix up some thickened resin (resin+milled fibers+cabosil - you can also use wood flour if you like, in place of the milled fibers) to a peanut butter thickness and then add the hardener and mix. You need to mix enough to round out the corners along the hull sides and bottom and also to stick the pipe to the hull. You can use a wooden spoon, regular spoon, or even make your own from a thin scrap of wood. The radius should be that of a wooden spoon. The reason to round out the corners is because 1708 doesn't like to traverse sharp edges. See this article - https://www.epoxyworks.com/index.php/bonding-with-fillets/
Rick
1971 "170" with 115 Johnson (It's usable but not 100% finished)

1992 230 Explorer with 250 Yamaha

July 15, 2021, 06:14:21 PM
Reply #44

RickK

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Re: 1987 170 Rebuild
« Reply #44 on: July 15, 2021, 06:14:21 PM »
What you'll be doing is laying in the fillets along corners (and the pipe) and then let the epoxy start to stiffen up. Then you start the laminations of the first layer of glass and when you hard roll the cloth to get the air out don't roll very hard over the fillets so you don't distort them. If you let the fillets harden before doing the laminating you'll have to sand the fillets.

OH - it's ok if you wait a while to set the core. You'll just need to scruff up the surface of the resin for the next stuff to stick.
Rick
1971 "170" with 115 Johnson (It's usable but not 100% finished)

1992 230 Explorer with 250 Yamaha

 

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