Info on "on-board" battery chargers

[seabob4]

Rick, although John's method works for his, and some other chargers, please read page 11 of the Promariner manual I linked to.  It states that for 24V systems, you need the 24V version of the ProTech charger...

[RickK]

I read that part too SB

Typical 12 Volt DC Common Ground Installation Wiring
For 24 Volt installations, always make sure you have a 24 Volt Common Ground ProTech-i Series Charger, and that your batteries are configured in series as a 24 Volt battery bank or banks. Each 24 Volt bank will require a 24 Volt positive connection. Not sure you know what voltage system you have on board your boat? Contact your local certified ABYC marine electrical technician.

I looked at the Charger Guy's website and saw their FAQ video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... 02DvZ3Wvxc) and it shows a 24 and even 36V system with each battery wired to a different bank without having to do anything special.  Maybe I need two different chargers?
They did say don't mix battery types - I'm going with AGM for the trolling motor but hadn't planned on doing anything other than a lead acid staring battery for the  engine/accessories - guess I need to rethink this part.
They also recommend dry mount chargers over the waterproof type.

[seabob4]

Rick, all chargers are the same...and they are all different.  Whether one type or brand recognizes the 24V aspect of the system (the jumper between hot and ground) and doesn't care, whereas the other does and says "Whoa, 24V here, no workie"...well, each manufacturer can tell you that.  Give Promariner a call, ask them if the Protech will work in a 24V system.  If they say no...don't buy it.

[RickK]

I sent an email to ChargerGuy - I'm not in a big hurry.  The 24V chargers are pricey....
Merry Christmas :bigsmurf:

[GoneFission]

Rick - JMHO, but think twice about the AGM battery and 24 volt charger...  You might want to consider just putting a pair of 31s under the console for your 24 volt setup.  You can pick up a lead/acid flooded marine 31 at Batteries Plus or AutoZone for about $100 with a 2 year replacement warranty with replacements available all over the country.  An AGM will cost you 2-5 times that amount and really does not perform a lot better in actual use.  My experience is the flooded batteries last 3-5 years - then just replace as necessary.  Get a charger that isolates the batteries (see other posts on this) and you are good to go - the charger won't have a problem with different battery types, cuz they are the same flooded type.  I'm not a fan of 24 volt chargers because they treat both batteries as one 24 volt set of cells and can hide a weak battery or a bad cell that would be obvious when you see the batteries separately.  Also put a volt meter on the dash with a Left-Right (on-off-on) switch so you can check each battery separately.      

One more piece of advice (a lot of our experts will NOT like this one) is to use stainless wing nuts    (with stainless lock washers)    on the 2nd battery and keep a set of jumper cables on the boat. If the main ever fails on you (of course in the middle of nowhere), you can quickly disconnect the second battery from the 24 volt setup and jump the main/starting battery off the secondary without having to get out two different size wrenches to get the nuts off the terminals (at night, in the rain, with the wind blowing).    You could set up the battery switches to do this, but I don't recommend it - you can have a real serious mishap if you get the switches wrong and wind up with one battery shorted to another!    Ever seen a battery explode?  It's not pretty...  

Anyway - a bit of a derail here, but some food for thought...  Also, somebody told me you can't derail your own thread!  

[seabob4]

You are right John, you can NOT de-rail your own thread!!!  Rules, para. 3.2, sec 6.13.001, "Derailment of threads"...

[RickK]

Reply from the ChargerGuy:

Hi Rick, I am happy to help out.

Your assumption is correct, the Protech i 12v would basically melt your batteries and destroy your boat. No joke.

The output voltage of what you are charging needs to match the specs on the charger. As the Protech i is a 12v charger, hooking up a 24 or 36v battery system to it will not work. Just a rule of thumb, if the voltages do no match, it will not work.

What you need is a multi voltage charger with the amount of banks necessary to support the batteries.

The best choice is a Prosport 20 + ( not the 20, but the 20+). It has 3 banks and will support your situation. Actually, this charger was
designed with your setup in mind as it is extremely common.

Check out ebay # 151192086056. I am low on these, but I am always get more in if this sells out.

Let me know if I can help more.

Thank you
Jason

http://www.ebay.com/itm/151192086056?ru ... 26_rdc%3D1

[RickK]

Rick - JMHO, but think twice about the AGM battery and 24 volt charger...  You might want to consider just putting a pair of 31s under the console for your 24 volt setup.  You can pick up a lead/acid flooded marine 31 at Batteries Plus or AutoZone for about $100 with a 2 year replacement warranty with replacements available all over the country.  An AGM will cost you 2-5 times that amount and really does not perform a lot better in actual use.  My experience is the flooded batteries last 3-5 years - then just replace as necessary.  Get a charger that isolates the batteries (see other posts on this) and you are good to go - the charger won't have a problem with different battery types, cuz they are the same flooded type.  I'm not a fan of 24 volt chargers because they treat both batteries as one 24 volt set of cells and can hide a weak battery or a bad cell that would be obvious when you see the batteries separately.  Also put a volt meter on the dash with a Left-Right (on-off-on) switch so you can check each battery separately.

Definitely some different trends of thought on this.  CB has an 11yr old AGM that is still working like new    I can never get much more that 2 yrs out of my Lead Acid types. So I was entertaining going to something that lasts a while. Sam's has Duracell AGM 31s for $169 and $179.
But I do agree that having the ability to charge them like 3 batteries and not mixing types is the way to go.

One more piece of advice (a lot of our experts will NOT like this one) is to use stainless wing nuts    (with stainless lock washers)    on the 2nd battery and keep a set of jumper cables on the boat. If the main ever fails on you (of course in the middle of nowhere), you can quickly disconnect the second battery from the 24 volt setup and jump the main/starting battery off the secondary without having to get out two different size wrenches to get the nuts off the terminals (at night, in the rain, with the wind blowing).    
Anyway - a bit of a derail here, but some food for thought...  Also, somebody told me you can't derail your own thread!  

I usually connect my leads to the batteries on those wing nuts and have had to change leads to jump a battery.  

[seabob4]

Just as I thought (no offense John), the Protech would have to be a 24V type to work in a 24V system.  Like I said, some 2 and 3 bank chargers can work with 24V banks, some can't.  Always the best thing to do before purchasing is to pull the install/operations manual up online and see what it has to say.  Still can't quite figure it out?  A phone call away will answer your questions...or an email, but I find the phone a lot quicker.

Rick, in regards to the pros and cons of the dry-area mount chargers versus the water-proof ones...I completely disagree with what your guy said.  Even mounted in "dry" compartments, the inherant nature of boats located by coastal areas allows moist, salt-laden air to invade those dry spaces...and rust and corrosion are not far behind.  Charles metal case chargers are famous for the terminations corroding right off the chargers (but I DO like Charles water-proof models), and I see the ProTech series has basically the same exposed terminations as the Charles units.  Yeah, they have a cover over them...big deal.  Covers don't stop air...

What I do recommend, to save costs and to occupy about the same real estate, is (2) chargers, a Guest ChargePro single bank for the start batt, and a Guest ChargePro 2-bank for the 24V TM batts.  Combine both AC feeds into the same charger inlet...nice, easy, compact, and a WHOLE lot less $$ than a 3-bank...

[RickK]

Here is the manual on the Prosport 20 plus- see page 10 and it shows the exact wiring I would need.  They do have one line in the manual that says don't mix the types but everything else led you to believe that you could. The ProSport20 Plus is not badly priced from a quick google I did.
http://www.batterystuff.com/files/proma ... l_1101.pdf

[seabob4]

Rick, in regards to batts...what I've seen last, what I've see work, and won't break the bank...Deka Marine Master Lead acid...  

[futch13]

All this charger talk is making my head hurt   ProMariner chargers are the best chargers I have used, be it personal or in customer boats.  They are smart chargers that direct the amperage to the lowest battery then adjust as they come up.  Number of batteries = number of banks.  Extend the charge leads if they are not long enough.  Never mix batteries on a charger as AGM have different charge requirements than lead acid.

I never liked charging batteries in a 24v configuration as 1 battery may be weak causing the charge to over charge the good battery in the system, where as bank chargers charge each battery independently.

[RickK]

All this charger talk is making my head hurt   ProMariner chargers are the best chargers I have used, be it personal or in customer boats.  They are smart chargers that direct the amperage to the lowest battery then adjust as they come up.  Number of batteries = number of banks.  Extend the charge leads if they are not long enough.  Never mix batteries on a charger as AGM have different charge requirements than lead acid.

I never liked charging batteries in a 24v configuration as 1 battery may be weak causing the charge to over charge the good battery in the system, where as bank chargers charge each battery independently.

We have to talk about something futch  
Anyway, I agree that all say that you shouldn't mix battery types buttttt... from page 7 of that manual I posted:

NOTE: AGM (Absorbed Glass Mat) batteries are not GEL (Gelled Electrolyte Lead-acid) batteries and require a completely different charge profile that must be selected versus the out of the box factory setting. AGM batteries can accept the same charging profile as Flooded (Lead-acid) batteries.

So are they trying to confuse us?  Can I mix AGM and Lead acid and they'll be fine because the AGM will accept the same profile as LA?

[seabob4]

What I know is that...gel cell batts cannot accept the same input voltages as lead acid or AGM (Advanced Glass Mat).  Gel charging voltages are more in the 12.8 range.  Hence, the switch (or cut the little jumper on some models of chargers) for either lead acid/AGM or Gel.  You don't see a 3-way switch, do you?

IMO, the jury is still out on mixing AGMs and lead acid.  Frankly, once again IMO, under normal use, normal loads, normal duty cycles, normal charge cycles and charge rates, the 2 types would cohabitate just fine...

[Double Trouble]

Rick, in regards to batts...what I've seen last, what I've see work, and won't break the bank...Deka Marine Master Lead acid...  

I have had Deka Marine Master start batteries (a pair) for 5 years and still going strong I also use a guest 2 bank charger that is on all the time when boat is in its slip.