Classic AquaSport

Aquasport Model Rebuilds, Mods, Updates and Refreshes => Osprey Style Hull Rebuilds => 165/170/175 Rebuilds => Topic started by: BradC on January 10, 2020, 10:20:49 PM

Title: Brad's '84 175 redeck
Post by: BradC on January 10, 2020, 10:20:49 PM
Howzit all, been mostly lurking for almost a year after picking up my old girl. I've used her most of 2019 out of a marina in Norwalk CT, with a few adventures during that time which I'll share during the course of the build.

The "there is only one small soft patch around the bilge pump access hatch" sales pitch has turned out to be a tad subjective around the adjective "small" ... I should have smelt a rat with the new half-moon shaped caulking at the base of the consol. Ridden hard and put away wet most of her life by the looks of things ... but ... she's mine now, warts and all.

Made the decision last week to give up her spot at the marina for 2020 and tackle the redecking - the entire year is the current timeline although what's revealed once the old deck is removed may impact that. A year for the deck may seem a tad conservative, but I'm a weekly commuter and only back home in NJ on weekends ... and do a fair amount of overseas travel ... and have a wife ... and 3 teenagers ... and an ethusiastic yakker ... so weekends are pretty full without "another project that won't be finished cluttering up the backyard" (a quote from SWMBO)

Have read Lars and Rick's build threads which, along with everyone else's, have been invaluable to visualising what needs to be done ... although calling out right now that I'm a fugly but functional type of guy, whose imagination paints pictures that his abilities can't match.

So ... the first of many questions and feedback requests:
Going to replace the deck  ... probably going to be with Nidacore (I’ve got an understanding of the cons and will try to mitigate before final installation) ... the big question is how thick?
Currently the boat is pretty wet, coming from the scuppers when I’m at the stern (yip, on a diet in parallel with this project) so will be laying the new deck on top of the rim left from the old deck. I may find that the foam is waterlogged, which when replaced, may substantially raise the scupper holes in relation to the water line anyway ... (live in NE, so water is effing cold in December/January)

Would 2” sheets be overkill? Or create an unsafe gunnel height? Suggestions/opinions please.

In the mean time, the weird warm weather we've been having here in the NE prompted an early start to dismantling ... so we're off ...

Some photos showing the challenge, chips in the gel coat, rats nest in the console etc

(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/image218.jpeg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=19613&title=image218&cat=500)

(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/image207.jpeg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=19605&title=redeck2&cat=500)

(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/image209.jpeg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=19607&title=image209&cat=500)

(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/image216.jpeg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=19611&title=image216&cat=500)

(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/image215.jpeg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=19610&title=image215&cat=500)

(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/image214.jpeg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=19609&title=image214&cat=500)

(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/image217.jpeg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=19612&title=image217&cat=500)

(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/image208.jpeg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=19606&title=image208&cat=500)






Title: Re: Brad's '84 175 redeck
Post by: mshugg on January 11, 2020, 05:41:50 AM
Two” NidaCore would certainly raise your deck, but it would be more difficult to work with.  It would make matching angles far more critical and likely result in bigger fillets.  A better solution IMO would be to use 1/2 -3/4” NidaCore and build your stringers up to gain the additional height.

As for how much to raise the deck, I’m sure others who have actually raised the deck on a 170 will report their results.  I will say that I always liked the depth of the 170 as it was.  I will say I took mine off shore a lot, probably more than is wise in a 17 footer, so I like to be in rather than on a boat. 
Title: Re: Brad's '84 175 redeck
Post by: RickK on January 11, 2020, 07:35:03 AM
Brad - I fixed all your pics (Edit Photo/Rotate CW/Submit changes). When you take pics with your phone hold the phone horizontal with the lens to the left.  Then they'll display correctly without editing them.

Now about the 2" Nida. I respect what mshugg posted, he's quite the craftsman and I would like to open this up to everyone (I'll ping some of our other Master Rebuilders too). When Brad asked me prior to posting here I explained that I had used 1/2" with 2 lams of 1708 on each side BUT then I started thinking about the 2" and assuming good craftsmanship, I couldn't think of one bad reason to using it with the exception of longer screws/bolts for connections. There is a plus I think in that you have more depth to get creative in design, like making recessed drains. I thought of being able to drill your scupper holes 1" lower than the floor height and creating a "cup" that water drains from floor into and then out the lower scupper. Also, making hatch/gutter pairs and actually having depth to build in drains to empty the gutters toward the scuppers without having to figure out a way to do this under the floor. That is only two examples - I'm sure others can easily be thought of.  The downsides to honeycomb in general is that all the strength comes from what is laminated on it, once you break the laminations, the honeycomb is weak, so you have to plan on how you'll beef that up, like with thickened resin, adding PVC, maybe carbon, etc.
Let's discuss this some more so we can give Brad every possible option and we can all learn something too.
Title: Re: Brad's '84 175 redeck
Post by: Capt. Bob on January 11, 2020, 10:43:16 PM
I'm gonna guess that 2, 1/2" sheets of Nida is cheaper than a 2" sheet so...

Take that cost savings and invest in a below deck alum or poly tank. :ScrChin:

Good luck.
Title: Re: Brad's '84 175 redeck
Post by: BradC on January 12, 2020, 08:53:51 AM
Thanks guys, on reflection there appears to be little benefit to using thicker boards, as the structural strength comes from the glass coatings not the honeycomb ... thanks for for bringing clarity to what is actually obvious. Going with 1/2" and will build up the stringers.

Next question ... stringer ... what is the best material for building up stringers with the following goal in mind (I'm considering embedding a thin layer of metal on top of whatever the buildup layer is so a detector of sorts can easily indicate where the stringer is ... yes/no/over thinking?). To mount something post build on top of  the stringers, one would over drill a hole into the deck as far as the bottom glass layer, hollow out a surrounding inch or 2 of the honeycomb, fill with epoxy and drill as per usual .... going deeper into the stringer buildup layer will then add further "bite" to the screw for an additional 1" or so .... so the buildup material should then be fairly dense ... suggestions? Or overthinking?

Thanks guys, you've already helped avert a costly and needless path (and probably future frustration) ... have your next cooling beverage on me  :singing:
Title: Re: Brad's '84 175 redeck
Post by: BradC on January 12, 2020, 11:06:47 AM
More tips from the brain trust please: Steering wheel is the last piece remaining on the console ... got the nut off but the wheel itself is being stubborn. Does it just slip onto the threaded bolt or does it also screw down? See pic below (liquid is PB Blaster in an attempt to loosen up a touch) . What is the most efficient approach? Thanks guys


(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/94D0A720-111F-41A3-BCE7-6574DC35BE3F.jpeg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=19614&title=94d0a720-111f-41a3-bce7-6574dc35be3f&cat=500)
Title: Re: Brad's '84 175 redeck
Post by: BradC on January 12, 2020, 11:46:32 AM
This is the half moon I referred to earlier.  ::o:

(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/2FD46668-04DB-4AEE-B961-0BDB022ADDDC.jpeg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=19615&title=2fd46668-04db-4aee-b961-0bdb022adddc&cat=500)
Title: Re: Brad's '84 175 redeck
Post by: mshugg on January 12, 2020, 07:17:48 PM
The steering wheel is on a tapered shaft, so basically it’s suck like **** until it isn’t.  You may be able to borrow a wheel pulling tool from an auto parts store.  Or you may be able to improvise one.  You want something that pulls up on the steering wheel while pushing down on the shaft.

As for building up the stringers, it’s a good use for scrap.  I used scrap carbon core (same as Coosa) from my transom, but hair scrap deck material will work too.  It’s the glass over the core that gives it strength.  Some builders use PVC fence posts to build up height.  Again, it’s the glass that makes it strong.
Title: Re: Brad's '84 175 redeck
Post by: RickK on January 13, 2020, 05:51:03 AM
The steering wheel slides down on the shaft and there is a "key" on the shaft to keep the wheel aligned. As mshugg said, find a wheel puller, maybe Harbor Freight?
Title: Re: Brad's '84 175 redeck
Post by: RickK on January 13, 2020, 06:00:22 AM
The best way to know where the stringers and bulkheads are is to make a detailed drawing of the inside of the hull from the same place always, like the starboard side. Measure and note each side of the stringer, top and bottom. Another thing to do is measure the top of the stringers from a 1x2 or similar laid across the top of the gunwale. The more you document the build/boat on paper, the more beneficial it'll be later when you need to know where something is. Another thing to document is where you install reinforcements, like for the console or  t-top. So yeah, laying metal to find the stringer might be a little overkill ;-)
Title: Re: Brad's '84 175 redeck
Post by: Capt. Bob on January 13, 2020, 07:23:45 AM
More tips from the brain trust please: Steering wheel is the last piece remaining on the console ... got the nut off but the wheel itself is being stubborn. Does it just slip onto the threaded bolt or does it also screw down? See pic below (liquid is PB Blaster in an attempt to loosen up a touch) . What is the most efficient approach? Thanks guys

Light reading.
https://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=6994.0

Title: Re: Brad's '84 175 redeck
Post by: CTsalt12 on January 13, 2020, 08:46:55 AM
Brad-One thought.  Coming from a non experienced rebuilder, but someone whose spent a lot of time on these 170/175s.

When you replace the deck, you may want to change the angle of the deck.  A lot of guys simply raise the deck to solve the 'water coming in the scuppers' issue.  When you're on a modern really nice boat like a Grady of this size, same layout, you can see the deck is a good bit higher in the bow, and angled down gradually towards the stern.  Promotes better drainage.  It's annoying when on these boats if you've got one or 2 people in the bow area at times, because that's where the most space is, the water has a tendency to hang in the front of the boat fore of the console, and won't drain till your underway. 

An angled deck may help this.  Just an idea.

Title: Re: Brad's '84 175 redeck
Post by: RickK on January 13, 2020, 10:43:21 AM
Good idea CT.
Title: Re: Brad's '84 175 redeck
Post by: BradC on January 13, 2020, 09:20:51 PM
Brad-One thought.  Coming from a non experienced rebuilder, but someone whose spent a lot of time on these 170/175s.

When you replace the deck, you may want to change the angle of the deck.  A lot of guys simply raise the deck to solve the 'water coming in the scuppers' issue.  When you're on a modern really nice boat like a Grady of this size, same layout, you can see the deck is a good bit higher in the bow, and angled down gradually towards the stern.  Promotes better drainage.  It's annoying when on these boats if you've got one or 2 people in the bow area at times, because that's where the most space is, the water has a tendency to hang in the front of the boat fore of the console, and won't drain till your underway. 

An angled deck may help this.  Just an idea.

That is a good call, just build up the stringers a bit more on the bow side, nice CT, tx
Title: Re: Brad's '84 175 redeck
Post by: BradC on January 13, 2020, 09:23:22 PM

Light reading.
https://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=6994.0


Hadn't considered a key slot, will check on the weekend if the weather permits, tx.
Title: Re: Brad's '84 175 redeck
Post by: CTsalt12 on January 14, 2020, 08:02:08 AM
I Don't know if the boat is stored in  Norwalk or jersey, if the former-that's where I'm based.  Happy to lend a hand.
Title: Re: Brad's '84 175 redeck
Post by: BradC on January 14, 2020, 06:52:20 PM
I Don't know if the boat is stored in  Norwalk or jersey, if the former-that's where I'm based.  Happy to lend a hand.

Cheers CT, NJ unfortunately, will be back in Norwalk after the refit though. Got the CT reference now  :13: We should meet up for a beer and a lie swopping session sometime  :singing:
Title: Re: Brad's '84 175 redeck
Post by: BradC on January 19, 2020, 01:16:56 PM
Update after yesterday’s snow ... managed to get the wheel off, was actually easy after initial learning curve ... a tip, keep the steering wheel’s nut on a few turns, but leaving enough proud of the end of the steering wheel shaft to create a lip that the clamp’s bolt won’t slip out of. It did take a little gentle persuasion to get the clamp’s jaws under the wheel’s base ... 2 firm bangs on the clamp’s bolt, retighten clamp’s bolt, 2 firm bangs on the clamp’s bolt, retighten ... repeat 3-4 times. The “firm bangs” are just that ... firm, not Thor-like.

Now for some input please ... what is the best way to remove cables from housing? Tx all.

(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/A631FAE3-1FAE-4FCA-8640-FE6827ABAE26.jpeg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=19638&title=a631fae3-1fae-4fca-8640-fe6827abae26&cat=500)

Notice the ridge on the shaft

(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/E7E0020D-DD90-4038-A029-E7C2B155D1E9.jpeg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=19639&title=e7e0020d-dd90-4038-a029-e7c2b155d1e9&cat=500)

Matched slot on wheel’s base

(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/6D3BB5B6-B212-43F9-9336-7FBA118DED5A.jpeg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=19637&title=6d3bb5b6-b212-43f9-9336-7fba118ded5a&cat=500)

Base of steering housing ... where to start

(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/30CDA63C-C44A-4C8D-83E5-D32A9E05F871.jpeg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=19636&title=30cda63c-c44a-4c8d-83e5-d32a9e05f871&cat=500)

Thanks guys



Title: Re: Brad's '84 175 redeck
Post by: RickK on January 19, 2020, 03:07:00 PM
Pull the cotter pin and then work it out.
Title: Re: Brad's '84 175 redeck
Post by: Bat21 on January 26, 2020, 11:39:43 AM
Sorry I know I'm late to the show. To remove the steering cable you have to remove the cotter pin and stick the end in the small hole and it releases the cable. It releases like an air hose fitting. Then push the new cable in until u hear a click and reinstall the cotter pin. You probably figured it out already but I posted in case u didn't. Good luck
Title: Re: Brad's '84 175 redeck
Post by: BradC on January 26, 2020, 04:31:49 PM
Thanks Bat, managed to work through it this morning ... found out what a Woodruff Key is and how stubborn and clever it is.

(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/4506B238-4A25-4887-8572-58340ED640F6.jpeg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=19652&title=4506b238-4a25-4887-8572-58340ed640f6&cat=500)

Got the steering mechanism off in the way Bat described ... lesson learnt - remove cable before disconnecting entire housing from the console (actually, probably be best to do this step before even removing the wheel, IMHO).

Got the console completely disconnected and off the hull and then the soft old fuel tank access panel ... time now for reflection and visualization...

(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/70644B1F-5419-4F5F-8AC3-4E7CB9DC73A6.jpeg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=19653&title=70644b1f-5419-4f5f-8ac3-4e7cb9dc73a6&cat=500)

(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/30A7C9DB-024C-4231-91FE-01D1DC976374.jpeg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=19651&title=30a7c9db-024c-4231-91fe-01d1dc976374&cat=500)



(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/FADFB061-1EC0-4E45-BD05-9E123CB5F020.jpeg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=19654&title=fadfb061-1ec0-4e45-bd05-9e123cb5f020&cat=500)

Plan is still to replace the deck at the moment ... thanks guys for the guidance so far






Title: Re: Brad's '84 175 redeck
Post by: RickK on January 26, 2020, 07:44:20 PM
I see the delam on the tank cover.
The best way to repair this is to do it from the bottom side and use a cutoff wheel to cut around the perimeter of the backing/core (just through the fiberglass laminations to cover the core), peel the backing/core off, grind the leftovers off and recore it. Then glass it back in.
Make sure you clamp the cover down on a flat surface non-skid down and figure how to get the core out (like I mentioned above) and then repair any damage to the lid from the inside with more glass and then recore. Try to do all the repair work so you minimize what is needed to repair the top side.
Title: Re: Brad's '84 175 redeck
Post by: BradC on February 09, 2020, 04:08:39 PM
Taking advantage of the weather and did the Angels and Fools thing:

(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/image226.jpeg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=19831&title=image226&cat=500)

No going back now ... (Note to self, even 4 short cuts creates an irritating array of fiberglass itches ... wear gloves and other protective gear )

Question ... there is a small "bulge" on the Port Stern quarter which the opposite side doesn't have ... any reason why it's there?

(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/image224.jpeg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=19829&title=image224&cat=500)

(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/image225.jpeg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=19830&title=image225&cat=500)










Title: Re: Brad's '84 175 redeck
Post by: RickK on February 09, 2020, 05:52:04 PM
Oh boy, taking the plunge huh?  :dancing:
The bulge looks to be in the liner mold. On the Starboard side the trough is in the way I think?
Title: Re: Brad's '84 175 redeck
Post by: BradC on February 09, 2020, 08:10:03 PM

The bulge looks to be in the liner mold. On the Starboard side the trough is in the way I think?

Definately done on purpose (yip, starboard side is the trough), but to what purpose?

Did some heavy thinking over the last little while before making that exploratory cut .... been watching the bigger boat rebuilds and really liking the various mods, so much so that the itch to go bigger was starting to get some traction ... but then thought back to the rationale of getting the smaller one in the first place (was actually looking for a 15' Hobie before coming across this Osprey) ... easy single-handed launching. I generally fish solo and the kids'll be gone over the next 4 years or so, wife has no interest in boating, into the 50s, so smaller is actually better. This boat will be my last one, so I'm going to make the changes I want based on personal preference and solo handling ... no consideration will be given to resale or aesthetics ... she's going to be fugly but functional.

One of the first major functional changes will be to revamp the console, essentially going to cut out a 8-10" strip down the middle and join it back together again ... this'll necessitate tossing the "new" 26G cube-shaped fuel tank and replacing it with a 35G poly below deck version.
Going to keep the casting deck as it is apart from refurbishing the hatch covers ... but build a long narrowish bench seat/hatch that'll run from the console to the casting deck ... so a passenger would either sit astride leaning back against the console or 2 people could sit side-by-side facing outwards (in opposite directions if fishing)
Considering a Dolphin T-Top Original Leaning Post ... will also cut out a 8-10" section and rejoin ...

Never been short of ideas, now just to get the hands to make what the inner eye can see  :alcool:

Thoughts ... Opinions ... Things to consider? Thanks all
Title: Re: Brad's '84 175 redeck
Post by: Fish Head on February 10, 2020, 12:46:03 AM
On my 19’6 there is a bulge in the liner in the same area that leads to a vent on the outside of the hull. I always assumed that was there if you had the I/O version and needed an exhaust fan for fuel fumes?
Title: Re: Brad's '84 175 redeck
Post by: BradC on February 15, 2020, 05:06:18 PM
Thanks for that Fish , maybe more will be revealed when the foam is removed.

Carried on cutting and removing today, based on the holes in the top of the stringer and sopping wet foam on the outside of the stringers, this is definately the right decision.

Some pics for posterity sake:

This is intended to be the lip that the new deck will rest on ... but the plywood is damp ... cause for concern? What are the next steps?

(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/image227.jpeg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=19834&title=image227&cat=500)

Yellow shows wet ply, orange dampish:

(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/image228.jpeg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=19835&title=image228&cat=500)

Sopping wet foam on outside of starboard stringer, almost no pressure on hammer

(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/image229.jpeg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=19836&title=image229&cat=500)

Open holes on top of stringers, must have been from when they sprayed in the foam, wonder why they didn't seal them?

(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/image230.jpeg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=19837&title=image230&cat=500)

Great big empty cavities in the stringers ...

(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/image231.jpeg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=19838&title=image231&cat=500)

Got the coffin/bathtub out in one piece ... reuse for new below deck tank?

(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/image232.jpeg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=19839&title=image232&cat=500)

WiP

(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/image233.jpeg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=19840&title=image233&cat=500)

(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/image234.jpeg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=19841&title=image234&cat=500)

Time to order the glass and stuff ... no going back now.

Will redo entire wiring ... what gauge is best for the following:
1. Battery to panel to motor (90hp 2 stroke)
2. Fish finders
3. Nav lights
4. Bilge pumps
5. Cockpit lights
6. Rev counter
7. Battery indicators

Thanks guys ... all inputs gratefully accepted - even the hard cold truth ones
Title: Re: Brad's '84 175 redeck
Post by: Tampa Bay Mike on February 17, 2020, 07:39:38 AM
Look up New Wire Marine. They have a bunch of diagrams on their site that were very helpful for me. Fair prices too. I used 14ga for all my lights, pumps, switches, etc. 10ga for the supply to the switch panel, 8ga back to the porta bracket pump, and 2ga on the batteries and from the switch back to the motor. I could have gone with 16 or 18 for a lot of it but for the small price difference I figured bigger wouldn't hurt.
Title: Re: Brad's '84 175 redeck
Post by: BradC on February 17, 2020, 09:31:20 AM
Look up New Wire Marine. They have a bunch of diagrams on their site that were very helpful for me. Fair prices too. I used 14ga for all my lights, pumps, switches, etc. 10ga for the supply to the switch panel, 8ga back to the porta bracket pump, and 2ga on the batteries and from the switch back to the motor. I could have gone with 16 or 18 for a lot of it but for the small price difference I figured bigger wouldn't hurt.

Thanks Mike, that’s exactly what I needed, very helpful ... appreciated.
Title: Re: Brad's '84 175 redeck
Post by: BradC on February 17, 2020, 01:25:59 PM
He calls it slave labour ... I call it indentured

(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/415773B4-B439-4043-905F-AC0A497C7AC8.jpeg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=19850&title=415773b4-b439-4043-905f-ac0a497c7ac8&cat=500)
Title: Re: Brad's '84 175 redeck
Post by: RickK on February 17, 2020, 06:37:59 PM
Usually 16 ga stranded is enough for low draw circuits (like LED lights). Greg's wire is a good source online and Greg personally fills every order promptly They have all the heat/glue type connectors too. They have pre-made battery cables too at many lengths (even have cables with one end pre-made and the other not). I assume you'll put the batteries inside the console and then where will the battery disconnect be - inside the console?  If I remember correctly the cable gauge from the battery to the engine was 4 ga and it was only 4-6 ft.
My 170 originally had the battery in the back of the boat by the transom in a plastic box. The cable from the battery to the starter was 4ga. When I rebuilt the 170 I moved the battery plus made room for 2 more (trolling motor) inside the console (I moved the fuel tank that was in the console, to under the sole). I ran 2/0 from the battery back to the cabinet in the corner and landed that on a terminal block in the cabinet. My thinking is to use a large gauge wire so that the battery "seems" to be in the back of the boat near the engine.
So the thought is if you want to power the starter in the engine from the console, use 2/0 so there is no loss and land it on a terminal block. You have some flat area on the last 3 feet of the liner that you could build out or figure out how to land the cable from the console and to attach the cable to the engine. Here is what I did - I built cabinets that I ran the pipes to that carried all the cables. I made cabinets on both rear corners.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1606.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=13223&title=cimg1606&cat=646)

I ran the battery cables to a terminal block and from the terminal block I ran 4ga to the engine - works great.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1734.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=14087&title=cimg1734&cat=646)

I ran cables, hoses and wires from the corners to the engine, whether electric or fuel, like this
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1730.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=14078&title=cimg1730&cat=646)

You have to sit down and think through what you need to route and how you're going to route them. You might need to create, like I did, a way to get the stuff from the console to the rear.
Title: Re: Brad's '84 175 redeck
Post by: BradC on February 19, 2020, 06:41:37 PM
Thanks for all the inputs guys.

Next few questions all around the glass side of things:
1. Marine.com are selling a product called Ebond 1285, epoxy resin, 5 gallon -$180. Anyone dealt with them before or has any feedback on the product?  ... or is this a potential get what you pay for?
2. Resin - at what stage do you apply subsequent layers iro tackyness ... or do you wait until the previous layer has completely set
3. follow on to #2 ... considering... new deck using Nidacore, top - 3 layers, first 2 layers Poly Resin with uppermost level using Epoxy resin. Bottom - 2 layers both Poly. 1708 being the glass. Yes, No or absolute madness?

My calculations call for 40 yards of 50” wide 1708, 20 Gallons of mixed resin so need to be as fiscally prudent as practical. Thx
Title: Re: Brad's '84 175 redeck
Post by: RickK on February 20, 2020, 07:11:10 AM
My .02.
1) Shipping will be very expensive so if you can find your supplies locally, you'll save a lot of money. I spent a lot of money (hundreds of $) on shipping just shipping epoxy across the state of FL.

2) Poly resin tries to harden from the minute it is created, so buying big qty (i.e. 5 gal) might save you some money, but if you don't use it up quickly, you'll be tossing it because it'll get lumpy. Epoxy will remain good a long time (not sure if forever, but I have some old epoxy and it's still liquid) but its expensive.
We have a lot of rebuilds that were done completely in poly. Poly hardens quickly once catalyzed (I think there is a type of polyester that doesn't harden right away, I don't remember the name but Capt Matt used it, it's missing wax I think). Epoxy takes a long time (sometimes days) to harden as long as you get it out of the bucket once mixed with hardener. Laminating wet on wet is the best way to get a project done so you're not waiting and having to scruff up the previous layer before adding the next. Since poly hardens so fast, wet on wet is usually not possible.

3) What will you be top coating the inside of the boat with? Gelcoat? or Paint? If Gelcoat, then you should stay with poly for resin. If paint, you can go with either resin. Nidacore is fine but I would stick with just one resin on each side, no reason, even monetarily, to mix resins. I used epoxy to laminate the bottom of my deck and since I was going to use gelcoat inside the interior of the boat, I used polyester for the 2 layers of cloth on the top.
Title: Re: Brad's '84 175 redeck
Post by: BradC on February 20, 2020, 08:01:27 AM
Thanks Rick - it's a real comfort to know there's a backup team a few clicks away with no ulterior motives in their advice!
Title: Re: Brad's '84 175 redeck
Post by: mshugg on February 20, 2020, 08:02:14 AM
My .02.
1) Shipping will be very expensive so if you can find your supplies locally, you'll save a lot of money. I spent a lot of money (hundreds of $) on shipping just shipping epoxy across the state of FL.

. . . I don't remember the name but Capt Matt used it, it's missing wax I think). . . . Since poly hardens so fast, wet on wet is usually not possible.

Rick’s discussion of resins is spot on.  And shipping is often a killer.  I think that he’s talking about laminating resin as opposed to finishing resin.  The surface of laminating resin will remain tacky for an extended period of time offering the advantages of wet on wet within about a 24 hour period.  To reach full cure, laminating resin must be isolated from the air for the surface to cure,so the final layer must be covered with wax, PVA or waxed gelcoat. 

Finishing resin has wax in it, so it cures fully without extra steps, but it must be de-waxed and sanded between layers.
Title: Re: Brad's '84 175 redeck
Post by: RickK on February 20, 2020, 04:40:18 PM
Thanks Mike, I forgot the name of the type of poly resin.  :thumleft:  Capt Matt did his entire rebuild of his FB with it. I saw the boat a couple years later and he said it was rock solid. So there are possibilities that are not the norm (I think Matt's rebuild was the only one that I remember on this site that used laminating poly).
Title: Re: Brad's '84 175 redeck
Post by: Tampa Bay Mike on February 21, 2020, 07:25:20 AM
Rick - I used laminating resin and unwaxed gelcoat for my build. FGCI sells "sanding aid" that is pretty much just the wax that you can add to the final coat so you don't have to buy two different types of resin. Worked great!

Brad - what is the thought process behind the final layer being epoxy? Is it just to get a full cure?
Title: Re: Brad's '84 175 redeck
Post by: BradC on February 21, 2020, 12:44:36 PM
Rick - I used laminating resin and unwaxed gelcoat for my build. FGCI sells "sanding aid" that is pretty much just the wax that you can add to the final coat so you don't have to buy two different types of resin. Worked great!

Brad - what is the thought process behind the final layer being epoxy? Is it just to get a full cure?

Good question Mike ...  based purely on the subjective perception that Epoxy Resin is “better” than poly really .... both from a structural and ease of use perspective ... but unless an unknown Aunt suddenly passes and bequeaths me a small bank soon, the planned Epoxy component is being slashed to tabbing elements only anyway ... which is using it for it’s designed purpose ... thanks for the steer
Title: Re: Brad's '84 175 redeck
Post by: BradC on February 21, 2020, 06:00:06 PM
First of many packages arrived during the week ... happened to be on the wife’s birthday so she was a tad confused when she opened it ... on the couch again

(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/B8B0E394-8FEB-41A0-BA54-82A50E7F9672.jpeg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=19881&title=b8b0e394-8feb-41a0-ba54-82a50e7f9672&cat=500)
Title: Re: Brad's '84 175 redeck
Post by: BradC on February 28, 2020, 08:11:17 PM
Glass, vinyl, Nida, diveny amoungst other goodies should be arriving next week ... which leads to the next question:

With the change to the COG due to fuel tank replacement, facelift to the console, losing all the saturated foam etc etc ... what is the best method to identify the console’s new placement?

Thanks all
Brad
Title: Re: Brad's '84 175 redeck
Post by: BradC on March 19, 2020, 10:18:32 AM
The Brains Trust ... Seadek, anyone have experience and/or opinion on it as an alternative non-slip option? Will it stand up to cleaning off of blood and guts (i.e. Will it be stained by either organic material or chemicals)? Generously proportioned bodies wearing flat-soled shoes/boots? Will the backing adhesive (3M product I believe) stand up to NE temps - specifically the lower end of the spectrum?

Any and all insight appreciated

PS Site search came up blank using Seadek/seadeck
Title: Re: Brad's '84 175 redeck
Post by: Tampa Bay Mike on March 19, 2020, 10:53:23 AM
I wish I had the perfect answer for the console placement but it's hard to say exactly as each boat is a little different. There are a lot of variables - engine weight, setback from the transom, fuel tank size, normal load, etc. The best thing would probably be to keep it close to where it was from the factory especially if you have the tank moved forward. I can say that my 22 is acts very different with a light load vs a full 55 gallon tank and five people.

As for Seadek, I have heard a lot of good things about its durability down here in Fl but most people that I know have only had it for a few years. I'm curious how it holds up long term.
Title: Re: Brad's '84 175 redeck
Post by: mshugg on March 19, 2020, 02:30:21 PM
Unless you’re changing something, the best starting location for console is the original location.  Remember waterlogged foam and failed fuel tank are deviations from the original design, and replacing wet foam with dry, etc is moving closer to original design intent.

Now if you’re changing something, heavier motor, jackplate etc, then it’s worth considering relocating heavy objects.  There’s a discussion of this over on Classic a Seacraft that includes a mathematical approach to shifting weights.  http://www.classicseacraft.com/community/showthread.php?t=28289

As for Sea Deck, lots of discussion pro and con.  I’m going to use instal it for coamimg bolsters and a cooler pad, but not my floor.  It’s too much work getting fish blood and bait slime out of non skid.  On the other hand, if I fished mostly catch and release with lures in my bare feet I’d consider sea deck.
Title: Re: Brad's '84 175 redeck
Post by: BradC on March 19, 2020, 03:49:35 PM
Unless you’re changing something, the best starting location for console is the original location.  Remember waterlogged foam and failed fuel tank are deviations from the original design, and replacing wet foam with dry, etc is moving closer to original design intent.

Now if you’re changing something, heavier motor, jackplate etc, then it’s worth considering relocating heavy objects.  There’s a discussion of this over on Classic a Seacraft that includes a mathematical approach to shifting weights.  http://www.classicseacraft.com/community/showthread.php?t=28289

As for Sea Deck, lots of discussion pro and con.  I’m going to use instal it for coamimg bolsters and a cooler pad, but not my floor.  It’s too much work getting fish blood and bait slime out of non skid.  On the other hand, if I fished mostly catch and release with lures in my bare feet I’d consider sea deck.

Thanks Mike, all valid and appreciated.

... mshugg - how simple the actual answer is, thank you for pointing out what should have been obvious  :embar: 
Title: Re: Brad's '84 175 redeck
Post by: RickK on March 19, 2020, 04:56:36 PM
Now the magical question....did you take measurements of where everything was originally  :think:
Title: Re: Brad's '84 175 redeck
Post by: BradC on March 19, 2020, 05:24:05 PM
Now the magical question....did you take measurements of where everything was originally  :think:

I distinctly remembered your advice to take lots of accurate measurements at the beginning of this journey at the same time as mshugg's input registered ... and will admit to having a Oh Pooh moment ... but .... procrastination has once again saved the day, still have all the cut out pieces of deck so can quite easily reconfigure and measure  :whoo:
Title: Re: Brad's '84 175 redeck
Post by: RickK on March 19, 2020, 06:17:33 PM
There ya go.
Title: Re: Brad's '84 175 redeck
Post by: BradC on March 21, 2020, 12:39:15 PM
Next question.  .... there is a concave indent every 2’ or so on alternate sides of each stringer, with a piece of plywood in the indent ... I assume the plywood is there to make the final structural glass piece lie flat (hopefully pic makes more sense). These pieces are now pretty much mulch. Next steps ... cut away and fill in with a layer or 2 of 1708 to eliminate the gap? Any ideas as to why they are there? Thanks chaps

(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/829B6C26-0F30-4B6E-BB9D-4AF271718374.jpeg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=19945&title=829b6c26-0f30-4b6e-bb9d-4af271718374&cat=500)
Title: Re: Brad's '84 175 redeck
Post by: RickK on March 21, 2020, 01:41:18 PM
Nope, sometimes we find weird stuff in our boats, wood in weird places is more common then others. I could guess that those might have been used to grab and set the premade stringers into the hull during manufacture - I know we have a couple pics in the gallery of this, maybe Capt. Bob can locate them, he's good at sniffing this stuff out.
Title: Re: Brad's '84 175 redeck
Post by: BradC on March 22, 2020, 04:51:53 PM
Getting the foam out of the stringers is not for the faint hearted ... sometimes I think it being so saturated has actually made it easier to get out ... sometimes ... far from the 1-day job I’d “budgeted” on.

(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/92C9A5F4-D4D3-4A16-9018-65E9C968AC77.jpeg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=19949&title=92c9a5f4-d4d3-4a16-9018-65e9c968ac77&cat=500)
Title: Re: Brad's '84 175 redeck
Post by: Crives92 on March 22, 2020, 08:01:11 PM
Good work. I cussed that foam like a sailor. But dont worry, some other pain in the a$$ part of the rebuild will take its place soon and it will be a distant memory. Lol
Title: Re: Brad's '84 175 redeck
Post by: BradC on March 23, 2020, 04:39:24 PM
First reaction to noticing that my stringer's access holes for foam weren't subsequently sealed, was intense irritation ... after a few more discoveries of shortcuts and wtfwtt during the original build ... it's now like water off a duck's back, I am permanently in my happy (albeit) itchy place.




 .... may the fleas of a thousand camels infest their balls and their fingers turn to fish hooks
Title: Re: Brad's '84 175 redeck
Post by: RickK on March 23, 2020, 05:25:56 PM
Brad, if you want the lower part of your post (above) to always be a part of your postings, go to "Profile" at the top and the on the left "Forum Profile" and then "Signature".
Title: Re: Brad's '84 175 redeck
Post by: BradC on August 20, 2020, 09:46:30 PM
Long time gents ... and have progressed not an inch since March! You’d have thought that working from home would give lots of opportunities to make significant progress ... not so unfortunately.

Anyhoo ... next piece of advice please ... looking at options to flip the hull and do the bottom before adding weight with new deck et al. Current thought process is to buy a HF engine stand (which rotates through 360*) and bolt to the transom (will need to raise the stand somewhat to clear half the beam) for $100 and use an engine hoist with a looped strap through the bow eyelet with the hoist backed a few feet away from the bow to get an angle on the strap. Flip and lower her onto a frame.

First prize would be if the bow eyelet is on the same horizontal plane as the center of the engine stand bracket so that she’d swivel on that axis  ... but I’m assuming not, so the looped strap would then come into play (in more ways than one ;) ) ... thoughts and suggestions gratefully accepted.

Title: Re: Brad's '84 175 redeck
Post by: RickK on August 21, 2020, 03:57:14 PM
Welcome back Brad - yup, life gets in the way a lot.  Are you rebuilding your transom during this rework project?
As for flipping the boat I built 2 gantries and 3 chain fall hoists (harbor freight). I built the gantries early in the process (hoisted the engine off the boat with one) and during the rebuild I would drape a huge 19x15 or wider tarp across the gantries and had instant shade.
Anyway, when ready to flip, figure out what you're going flip it onto.  I used my trailer and built some frames for it to land on.
Then get a crazy buddy to help and start the flip.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1423.JPG) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=11561&title=cimg1423&cat=646)

(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1424.JPG) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=11562&title=cimg1424&cat=646)

(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1425.JPG) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=11563&title=cimg1425&cat=646)

(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1426.JPG) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=11564&title=cimg1426&cat=646)

(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1427.JPG) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=11565&title=cimg1427&cat=646)

(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1428.JPG) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=11566&title=cimg1428&cat=646)

(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1432.JPG) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=11570&title=cimg1432&cat=646)

Easy Peazy
Title: Re: Brad's '84 175 redeck
Post by: BradC on August 21, 2020, 04:24:41 PM
Welcome back Brad - yup, life gets in the way a lot.  Are you rebuilding your transom during this rework project?
As for flipping the boat I built 2 gantries and 3 chain fall hoists (harbor freight). I built the gantries early in the process (hoisted the engine off the boat with one) and during the rebuild I would drape a huge 19x15 or wider tarp across the gantries and had instant shade.
Anyway, when ready to flip, figure out what you're going flip it onto.  I used my trailer and built some frames for it to land on.
Then get a crazy buddy to help and start the flip.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1423.JPG) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=11561&title=cimg1423&cat=646)

(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1424.JPG) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=11562&title=cimg1424&cat=646)

(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1425.JPG) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=11563&title=cimg1425&cat=646)

(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1426.JPG) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=11564&title=cimg1426&cat=646)

(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1427.JPG) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=11565&title=cimg1427&cat=646)

(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1428.JPG) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=11566&title=cimg1428&cat=646)

(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1432.JPG) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=11570&title=cimg1432&cat=646)

Easy Peazy

Actually that’s a good shout ... I’d considered and rejected building gantries as overkill ... but on reflection, I need to build a shelter for her anyway, might as well do it now and make it multi-functional ... thx Rick

PS - nope on the transom, it seems solid at this point.
Title: Re: Brad's '84 175 redeck
Post by: mshugg on August 21, 2020, 05:19:07 PM
Not sure where you’re located, but I have two gantries that I built to flip my 200 CCP.  They’re free to anyone who wants to haul them away.  They break down into 12’ sections, so they’d require a flatbed.  Also have 3 harbor freight chain hoists that I’d sell for half the cost of new.  I’m in east Orlando.
Title: Re: Brad's '84 175 redeck
Post by: BradC on August 21, 2020, 06:18:36 PM
Not sure where you’re located, but I have two gantries that I built to flip my 200 CCP.  They’re free to anyone who wants to haul them away.  They break down into 12’ sections, so they’d require a flatbed.  Also have 3 harbor freight chain hoists that I’d sell for half the cost of new.  I’m in east Orlando.

That’s incredibly generous of you, thanks, but I’m up in Joisey so not practical ... thanks again though  :thumleft:
Title: Re: Brad's '84 175 redeck
Post by: mshugg on August 21, 2020, 07:56:46 PM
Yeah, see the problem.  Even so, I think gantries are the way to go, unless there’s an offensive line you could recruit.
Title: Re: Brad's '84 175 redeck
Post by: BradC on March 07, 2021, 05:42:26 PM
Seems like the strategy of doing nothing has paid off this time ... winter teased out a rather alarming crack in the top portion of the transom ... could have been worse, could have at the end of the deck rebuild  ... time to find a Coosa supplier in NJ

(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/84BA48F8-D126-4B30-ADC8-DF45B51A4ABD.jpeg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=21570&title=84ba48f8-d126-4b30-adc8-df45b51a4abd&cat=500)
Title: Re: Brad's '84 175 redeck
Post by: RickK on March 08, 2021, 12:34:54 PM
Can you post a pic a little farther away so I can see where the damage is pertaining to transom?
Title: Re: Brad's '84 175 redeck
Post by: BradC on March 08, 2021, 05:35:36 PM
PO did say it was fixed at some stage

(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/FAB5B8DD-AABA-4E04-9A4E-BD1BF1505282.jpeg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=21571&title=fab5b8dd-aaba-4e04-9a4e-bd1bf1505282&cat=500)
Title: Re: Brad's '84 175 redeck
Post by: BradC on March 08, 2021, 05:37:46 PM
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/CE32994B-321A-4BE2-B0F6-8B74708430B9.jpeg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=21572&title=ce32994b-321a-4be2-b0f6-8b74708430b9&cat=500)
Title: Re: Brad's '84 175 redeck
Post by: RickK on March 08, 2021, 07:40:54 PM
Ok, that is the joint where the liner comes up and over the transom. It's pretty common to see this. Does this mean it's not an issue? It depends on if water got in there in mass. If your transom is sound, you can grind this joint down to clean glass and use resin with some chopped glass to make a thick peanut butter thickness bondo to fill it in.
If the transom is not sound, then you have to go deeper and at least replace the core, which will involve popping this liner portion anyway.
Title: Re: Brad's '84 175 redeck
Post by: BradC on March 08, 2021, 08:33:05 PM
Thx Rick ... figure I’m doing the deck so might as well do it properly and redo the transom  .... looking into Baltek Airex PXc board (not too many options up here in the NE)
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