Classic AquaSport
Aquasport Model Rebuilds, Mods, Updates and Refreshes => Osprey Style Hull Rebuilds => Flatback 22-2 Rebuilds => Topic started by: Ulysses485 on November 23, 2020, 01:30:12 AM
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Hello CAS friends.
So this Flatback came across unexpectedly and was the reason for the sale of my 1971’. It was found in Miami, Fl in the Kendall area and it was noted (from the owner who salvaged it off the original owner) that it had not moved from where it sat for 40yrs!! The previous owner was doing work for an “old man in his 80s who got sick and was never able to use the boat” and took it on trade for work. The last trailer registration sticker present was from 1985. The condition of the trailer and hull appear as though the hull was under some form of canopy but still outside exposed to humidity. The deck and casting platform are rock solid short of a soft spot at the opening of the live well ...yes it has original viewing windows which I am really excited about. :danceSm: The stringers seem solid and dry from what I can tell so far. There are no access ports cut in the deck. The transom is shot unfortunately. It’s all original Gelcoat, non skid deck, no bottom paint or paint anywhere. In fact, the Gelcoat at the hull bottom still shines and even the area around the viewing windows are in incredible shape.
Truly a time capsule and my goal is to keep it as original as I can. It definitely has stains that are going to keep me busy behind a pressure washer but should be a neat simple build. Finally, the Classic Flatback 222 with viewing windows that I always wanted. The dive platform would have been neat but i can’t complain.
I do like a good storyline and history but I am just as much a sucker for photo evidence so here are a few shots from the property it was pulled from and me moving it from the trailer so I can trailer it to north Florida.
Leaving the “old mans” property
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/79805A10-5174-4BF4-BCB2-F12A4F69976E.jpeg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=21299&title=79805a10-5174-4bf4-bcb2-f12a4f69976e&cat=500)
Picking her up from the PO using a local wrecker.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/56161E11-A52D-4190-A407-44C284CE3F4B.jpeg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=21298&title=56161e11-a52d-4190-a407-44c284ce3f4b&cat=500)
In Homestead transferring her to a trailer with axles.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/493B937C-D433-4697-BFB3-669F26232561.jpeg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=21296&title=493b937c-d433-4697-bfb3-669f26232561&cat=500)
First pass of the pressure washer at home...unfortunately stopped working halfway through ..ugh.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/4B855F35-A79A-4F3B-A0AA-16BB4CBB052F.jpeg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=21297&title=4b855f35-a79a-4f3b-a0aa-16bb4cbb052f&cat=500)
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What a find - congrats. Is the transom flexing?
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great story & and boat, hope you get her back on the water! I came across a similar situation with my 19-1, but ants & whatever other little bugs had gotten into the deck core through loose screws & eaten away most of the plywood.
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What a find - congrats. Is the transom flexing?
Thank You RickK.
The transom is surely shot. There is wood rot on the corners where the cap attachment meet and I can run a screwdriver down each side. I am hopeful that the chainsaw/poured method might work because i want to keep the deck in one piece and try my best not to cut up the scupper trough etc. I have no idea how I would accomplish this while also needing to replace the drain and scupper drains but time will tell how far I need to dig to make it right.
Although not the best of designs, I plan to use the in deck cable tray for rigging and the in console space for a 30 gallon fuel tank (leaving me room to possibly cutout an insulated cooler below the seat. I would like to stow the batteries in the "dry storage compartment" center forward of the console and wire through the deck side under the cap and back through the deck cable tray. My goal is to power it with either an older 2 Stroke 115hp Yamaha @ 330lbs or a 2 Stroke 90hp Yamaha at 261lbs. I prefer the proportions of the 115hp to the boat and the extra power would be nice (only a slight concern about noise). However, the 90hp seems just right for my goals. We had a 90 Yammy on a 17 Montauk Boston Whaler and that was a fun rig. With just me and half a tank of fuel i dont think the hull bottom was touching the surface of the water..lol.
I plan to use it inshore out of Crystal River, Waccasassa, Ingles, Homosassa, and Silver Springs, etc. for family cruises and Hunting Redfish and ....Grouper?. I would also trailer it to South Florida for spearfishing and lobstering during the summer and bottom fishing in the bay with the boys when they are older.
great story & and boat, hope you get her back on the water! I came across a similar situation with my 19-1, but ants & whatever other little bugs had gotten into the deck core through loose screws & eaten away most of the plywood.
I surely hope that I don't end up with a similar situation. However, at the end of the day, if I absolutely have to replace the deck, I would consider it a perfect platform for a rebuild.
Stay tuned :)
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Look through Lar's rebuild - he used Seacast and it came out great. PM him with questions. https://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=12508.0
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Thank you for point this one out. I have gone through some of his post in the past and went through most of the other day when you pointed it out. We shall see. :)
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So I was able to do a scupper/buoyance/float test this past weekend!! I was anxious to get a baseline for the hull and original motor hanging on the back. Unfortunately/fortunately..haha, the scuppers only barely sat below the waterline. However, that was with me standing back (three batteries in front of the console). When the three batteries were placed aft, it was the same condition with me forward but when I walked back, water rushed into the rigging track to a point and stopped. I did some rough leveling and figuring (unfortunately not till I was home because I forgot a level) and I might gain 1-3 inches if I can get weight forward to bring the hull closer to level....which brings me to my questions.....is there a design angle that is best for flat bottom boats that is used? Because these flatbacks don't have lifting strikes and primarily only "move forward faster" while using their sharp entry bow to cut the chop, wouldn't an almost perfectly level hull be a good thing (aside from a wetter ride)? I guess its a matter of whether its worth running the risk of having to trim up to raise the bow (running the risk to cavitate/roll on the keel) for a dryer ride? I am sure most are thinking tojust rip the deck out, close the transom, and raise the deck, but my goal is simplicity (and the deck is solid and stringers are dry - as far as I can tell). However, I am between a 140hp Suzuki @ 405lbs, a 115hp Yamaha @ 377lbs, a 115hp Merc. @ 359lbs, 150hp Merc. @ 455lbs, 150 Yamaha @ 489lbs. This is all in comparison to an original 135hp Evinrude that weighs a solid 270-300lbs. The only motor that compares is the 90hp 2 Stroke but I am having a hard time with the emission and racket of what would come with the 2 stroke cruising down a quiet fresh water river (Silver Springs / Ocklawaha) with the family.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/924/Photo_Dec_13_20_11-49-37_PM-3.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=21371&title=222-flatback-buoyance-2fscupper-test&cat=924)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/924/Photo_Dec_13_20_11-49-37_PM-2.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=21370&title=222-flatback-buoyance-2fscupper-test&cat=924)
Standing in front of the transom with three (3) batteries in front of the console.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/924/Photo_Dec_13_20_11-49-37_PM.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=21372&title=222-flatback-buoyance-2fscupper-test&cat=924)
Thoughts?
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We have a couple members who are fishing guides with a FB and have a 150 on theirs - one is a Honda and the other with a Merc Opti (He said it was perfect for the hull). Doesn't look like Merc makes a 2-stroke anymore. Maybe only the ETEC is a 2-stroke.
If you can find a 90-115 stroke, that would move the boat along nicely. I drove one with a 90 and it was enough power. Depends how much power you feel you need. One of our members had a 225 or 250 on his - he said it was scary. ::o:
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This is a drawing from the gallery. Your boat doesn't look much off the lines shown in the drawing
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/744/1968-69CatPg9-bkgrd.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=11793&title=1968-69catpg9-bkgrd&cat=744)
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Rickk, good point. I totally forgot and haven't had the chance to reference back to this. It was indeed the same as this stock/factory photo. :)
Its puzzles me though how the trough system was built so low at the lowest point of the rigging tray. It was inevitable for water to constantly sit in the rigging tray when fishing with a couple of adults out back. I guess plugs are in the cards for me.
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Curious if it’s possible to replace coring in transom from removing outside skin, not impacting inside skin, floor, and gutter/trough. Not sure if chainsaw/Poured transom would be easier than the fairing necessary with cutting the exterior skin. Thoughts? Thank you
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The danger when pouring a transom is any leaks that would allow the material into the bilge area. I don't know if there is some kind of bag you can insert into the gap and then pour into the bag?
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Poured my transom, very little fairing needed after laying up fiberglass with melamine board. But I also made a new inside skin which I made for the inside and fiberglassed in prior to pouring Arjay 6011 I didn’t wanna use the original fiberglass. Just had to fair the outside seams that I filled and covered with 1708. The rest of the transom was smooth.
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I never thought of this as an option but seems like I could benefit from both. Easy cleanup, and less fairing, all from the outside. Maybe recess the MDF where is meets the exterior skin? How did you tie in the exterior skin to the pour? Thanks for your input!
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I made small square spacers out of the Arjay 6011 at my desired thickness about 2 inches and installed them spaced out throughout the inside of transom so I would have even thickness. Got this idea from Seacasts website. The inside skin I made a template layed it out on the same melamine board after it cured, I popped it off cut it to shape, grinded the inside skins on both sides so when I poured it would have a good mechanical bond when cured. I also ruffed up the spacers just to be sure. With the inside skin against the spacers, I was able to do over lapping layers of 1708 longer and longer to complete the bond to the hull. I made a homemade large funnel that sat inside the transom gap out of cardboard and duck tape to make pouring easier, I did the pour myself in no time. Just make sure you support the outside and inside of the transom well to prevent bulging or possibly failure. The exotherm is pretty crazy. I had my knees installed prior to the pour that way the inside was supported, and the outside I supported with 2x4’s fastened to the outside every so many inches to make sure I was good to go. Stuff is expensive and didn’t wanna make an expensive mistake.
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I can’t believe it’s been 2 years since I’ve posted an update here. Well I’ve been busy on other projects and it sat on the back burner for nearly this whole time but recently got some motivation (and a more definitive plan) to make some progress and here are some photos:
Well it turned out that there surprisingly wasn’t much change with about 180lbs of motor on the transom (with respect to how much water it took on at the factory scuppers). With me at the side of the helm, 30 gallons of fluid (mostly shellac and water) in the factory tank (60 gallon total) 2 - group 24 batteries and 2- group 31 batteries in the forward storage cubby, it sat with barely taking on water at the factory scuppers. Eliminating the trough and raising the scupper location to the main deck height has proved to be an option to keep it a self bailing deck.
May/August 2021..The 225 Evinrude was just stored on the transom and has since been sold.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/924/IMG_8476.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23073&title=img-8476&cat=924)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/924/IMG_9248.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23074&title=img-9248&cat=924)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/924/IMG_9341.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23076&title=img-9341&cat=924)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/924/IMG_9342.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23077&title=img-9342&cat=924)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/924/IMG_9350.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23079&title=img-9350&cat=924)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/924/IMG_9344.png) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23080&title=img-9344&cat=924)
Moving on to more recent actual progress. Got the rubrail and cap removed. There is no doubt that more caps aren’t removed because of the absolute pain in the neck that is a flathead machine screw, I’ve had enough of them!! Because the liner is bonded at the top where the rubrail/cap is connected, the form is kept and very rigid.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/924/IMG_3472.JPG) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23062&title=img-3472&cat=924)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/924/IMG_34742.JPG) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23064&title=img-34742&cat=924)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/924/IMG_34752.JPG) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23066&title=img-34752&cat=924)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/924/IMG_34801.JPG) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23068&title=img-34801&cat=924)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/924/IMG_34821.JPG) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23070&title=img-34821&cat=924)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/924/IMG_3483.JPG) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23071&title=img-3483&cat=924)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/924/IMG_34871.JPG) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23072&title=img-34871&cat=924)
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Those liner screws are brutal to remove. I found a sharp chisel and 9 whacks from a big hammer would snap any that involved a nut that was so embedded into the liner I couldn't get vice grips on it. Which ended up being a lot on my boat.
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@Ulysses485 - you might want to flip that cap over so it lays flat. Don't need a twist getting into it.
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@Ulysses485 - please check your messages.
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@Ulysses485 - you might want to flip that cap over so it lays flat. Don't need a twist getting into it.
Rickk, That was just where it was when it came down from the gantry. I struggle to get photos of action or progress because do most of the work at night when the boys (2 & 4) are sleeping.
So after much thought and pondering, I devised a plan to split the top liner from the hull and stringers. Surprisingly I was able to convince the bonding putty to let go of the main deck underside and it peeled like an onion at the transom. I will take better photos for record when I have a chance but pretty happy with the way it turns out and eliminated the use of a sawzall (for now...pending final decision of the route I am going to take). Oh and I scored on some 1'' plascore honeycomb material. Plan is at least 2 maybe three layers of 1708 top and bottom.
Here was the setup is used to keep the liner from crumbling while I lifted from inside the casting deck holes and underneath the recessed storage box center forward:
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/924/IMG_3666.JPG) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23132&title=img-3666&cat=924)
Looking towards the Transom with the deck lifted:
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/924/IMG_3685.JPG) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23134&title=img-3685&cat=924)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/924/IMG_3684.JPG) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23133&title=img-3684&cat=924)
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Very nice!! Would you say the key to success is to lift/peel from the front?
So what is the plan of the rebuild? I assume the tank was above deck inside the console? Are you going to stay with that? Are you going to change the self bailing design of the boat? You really can't change much, like the deck to gunnel height without this becoming a full rebuild.
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Very nice!! Would you say the key to success is to lift/peel from the front?
So what is the plan of the rebuild? I assume the tank was above deck inside the console? Are you going to stay with that? Are you going to change the self bailing design of the boat? You really can't change much, like the deck to gunnel height without this becoming a full rebuild.
RickK,
Absolutely the key to success (with some exceptions)! If not completely original, I can see how this would not be a feasible option (due to previous repairs or rebuilds, etc.). It does take a few extra tools (which are typically usable around boat building and DIY stuff and could be built cheap and resold anyhow). I'm honestly surprised that more don't do it this way. The rubrail typically come off in a rebuild (or at least it should IMO) and as long as you are careful with how you brace the cap and recore/reinstall it, its a much more clean way of rebuilding the boat. I'm a gelcoat guy (NO PAINT) and a perfectionist so spraying and finishing with the cap off has become a must for me.
Regarding the build, I am considering my options but I am leaning towards a closed transom with a porta bracket so that opens up a can of worms as we all know regarding draft, fuel tank/battery/pump/rigging locations etc. My biggest concern (or the biggest unknown rather) was wet stringers and where I have poked, that's what I am finding. The good thing is that the stringers look to be in excellent shape so ill make swiss cheese of their tops like my 240 and gut all the foam. I'll reinforce from the inside of the stringers with putty and tabbing, refoam, and modify stringer height accordingly depending on what I decide. The fuel tank location was as shown in photo below as a 60 gallon cell. It eats up a lot of space and I am actually going to look into relocating it below deck in the forward section below the casting deck.
Existing Fuel cell that was removed.
[/b](https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/924/IMG_6282.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23135&title=img-6282&cat=924)
Some more progress photos (yes that is a bunch of dry glass from the transom skin):
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/924/IMG_3749.JPG) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23139&title=img-3749&cat=924)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/924/IMG_3748.JPG) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23138&title=img-3748&cat=924)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/924/IMG_3747.JPG) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23137&title=img-3747&cat=924)
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Well here she is, skinned and naked of the liner. This is going to provide much easier access to the outside stringers (which have horrible tabbing to the hullside and never really bonded to the bottomside of the decks). It will also provide me opportunity to define my rebuild now that I can inspect thoroughly. Unfortunately, the stringers in the flatbacks are primarily made of simply just chopped strand mat. There is NO woven roving /cloth or any form of structural glass in the design of the stringers, just the hull mold and the transom cap and liner. This is most likely why most of them are found with stringers that are basically destroyed and cracked all throughout. I was fortunate to have found one not abused and only powered up to 135hp (1973' model) when it was parked in the mid 80s.
Once i get my pressure washer fixed, it should clean up decently so I can get it chine/keel blocked to remove the foam and begin working on reinforcement of the stringers.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/924/69595814389_73BA9B5B-5316-4AD4-8DB2-EB9E6568152B.JPG) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23144&title=69595814389-73ba9b5b-5316-4ad4-8db2-eb9e6568152b&cat=924)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/924/IMG_3766.JPG) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23145&title=img-3766&cat=924)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/924/IMG_3767_1_.JPG) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23146&title=img-3767-1&cat=924)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/924/IMG_3768.JPG) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23147&title=img-3768&cat=924)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/924/IMG_37741.JPG) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23148&title=img-37741&cat=924)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/924/IMG_37691.JPG) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23149&title=img-37691&cat=924)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/924/IMG_3777.JPG) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23150&title=img-3777&cat=924)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/924/IMG_3779.JPG) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23151&title=img-3779&cat=924)
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Wow, came with an oar and a fish gaff.
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Wow, came with an oar and a fish gaff.
Yup. A little extra.
They will make great wall ornaments for the shop when I eventually build one. :)
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Well there goes another year and some. I guess as I get older, summers are too much to bare in Florida when working in the heat. Fall and Winter were fairly productive. Got all the foam removed (Winter of 2023), pressure washed a few times, transom gutted out (winter 2024) , everything grinded down for the most part, and center stringer removed.
Photo Dump from progress since last post ! haha...
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/924/IMG_3802.JPG) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23729&title=img-3802&cat=924)
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Wow, that's a lot of progress and some good clean work :salut2:
Yeah working in the heat in FL is tough - I almost passed out many times from the heat over the years during the rebuild. This worked for me and I went through a bunch of them - A BIG tarp overhead about 5 ft above you, that allows you to extend the sides out about 10-15 ft and propped up with tent poles. This allows the air to cool that wafts through before it reaches you. A big floor fan is also a must.
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Wow, that's a lot of progress and some good clean work :salut2:
Yeah working in the heat in FL is tough - I almost passed out many times from the heat over the years during the rebuild. This worked for me and I went through a bunch of them - A BIG tarp overhead about 5 ft above you, that allows you to extend the sides out about 10-15 ft. and propped up with tent poles. This allows the air to cool that wafts through before it reaches you. A big floor fan is also a must.
Its brutal. I am hoping to get most of the structural work done before it starts getting too hot (I can work under shop lights in the evening now with the new carport so that should buy me till early summer).