Do I really need Dual Batteries Installed?

[Skoot]

Okay guys, I need your help once again.  So far you haven't let me down, and I know I can trust everyone on this site (well almost everyone ) Currently, I have only one battery used to start/run my motor. My plan is to change that asap.  Basically I'll be starting from scratch as I do not have any electrical devices (including lights ) installed on my boat.  I dont have any experience in installing  (from scratch) Batteries, buss bars, wiring, wire gauge, fuses/location, lingo etc. So, Im open for any suggestions, but keep in mind Im trying to keep this as simple as possible.

So here's my plan
1. Move current battery off deck/stern to new location under flip-top console. (this will become a back-up starting battery (ICE)
2. Buy/Install New Battery under flip-top console and run new cables to motor and buss bar (this will be my House and starting battery)
2. Install Positive and Negative buss bar under console
3. Install a Circuit Breaker Panel on console (6 panel switch)
3. Install/wire Running and Anchor lights (Possibly LEDs)
4. Install/wire under-gunwale courtesy lights (LEDs)
5. Install/wire a bilge pump
6. Install livewell pump (500gph)
7. Install/wire VHF
8. Install/wire Bottom Machine. (eventually)

That pretty much sums it up.  What do you guys think?

[TheKid]

I'm pretty much doing the same but batteries in stock location, for now.

I am going to add a main breaker under the helm upstream of the switch box.

With your batteries inboard under a hatch I would install the breaker there then off to the helm. I'd prefer to do this but have no clean dry place near the batteries.

Probably add a service loop leaving the splash well to add one later. Then I wont have to pull another cable if I decide to keep everything in the well.

I just need to clean up some of the mess from the previous owner. Looks like he used two, used to be orange, extension cords to power up the helm and no fuses or breakers.

[wingtime]

Sounds great what about a battery switch?

[pete]

http://bluesea.com/category/2/productline/overview/329


I would add one one these,it automaticly keeps your #2 battery charged without having to switch batteries to keep them charged.
Here is some basics for a 2 battery setup,never operate battery switch while engine running,always run on battery 1 or 2 never both.This is what I know,I'm sure others know more.

[MarshMarlowe196]

I have two batteries in my boat - a starting battery and a deep cycle battery.  The main reason I have a deep cycle is for the troll motor, but it's also connected to a spotlight outlet and courtesy lights.

Everything else (Nav lights, GPS, Depth/Fish-Finder, VHF, Bilge Pumps) are wired to the starting battery.  My thinking was- What will I be using while the engine is running?  Since the engine is charging the starting battery, I thought it'd be best to wire the accessories I use for navigation to the starting battery, that way I wouldn't be without them while underway if they were wired to a different, potentially dead battery.  Also- since the bilge pumps are so important, I wired them to the starting battery as well.  That way- if the starting battery is dead, I'm not leaving the ramp, and therefore I'm not in the water without bilge pumps that might be wired to a potentially dead battery.

I have a battery switch like wingtime's talking about, but I decided not to run the deep cycle into the switch.  You could switch over to a deep cycle with this switch if you decided to keep one of your accessories on while the engine is off, but then there's the chance that you'd forget to switch back over to your starting battery before you start the engine.  A deep cycle battery is not designed to be charged in the way that your outboard will charge it- it needs a slow, "trickle" charge to take on a full charge, and charging it differently will shorten the life of the deep cycle battery.  So, I really just use the switch to disconnect the starting battery from anything that could put a "phantom" drain on the battery (like a bad ground somewhere in a nest of salty wiring) after I'm done using the boat.

You could also use this switch if you decided to add another starting battery, then you could charge both at the same time safely.  My opinion is that you do not need two starting batteries, but it's your peace of mind, not mine.

If you decide on a battery switch, make sure you DO NOT connect the positive lead on your automatic bilge pump / float switch to the switch- you want to keep that directly wired to a charged battery, or it wont work with the switch turned off.  Obviously.

There are combo deep cycle/starting marine batteries out there, but I've heard so-so things.  Seems like you get less than the best of both worlds.

As far as wiring goes, it's best to have a plan (believe me, I've learned the hard way), or you'll end up with a nest and wires that you're not quite sure belong to what and how  

SeaBob has done some amazing wiring jobs, I'm sure he'll chime in.  I used a helluvalotta heat shrink.

[Circle Hooked]

There are combo deep cycle/starting marine batteries out there, but I've heard so-so things. Seems like you get less than the best of both worlds.

Thats's all i use and never a problem,that includes many fishing trips and over nighters,usually  get 4 years out of one before it need replacing,i upgraded to AMG dual purpose last year so well see how long they last,so far so good.

[fitz73222]

I run 2 1000 CCA combination deep cycle and starting batteries and run the battery switch on both batteries and never have a problem. I usually get 4 years sometimes 5 before they need to be replaced. Same situation on my flats boat and NEVER trickle charge them. Deep cycle batteries need to be charged at 10 amps to bring them up from a discharge state quickly and always within 12 hours of being discharged. Trickle chargers cause plate erosion in deep cycle batteries and actually shorten their life. I test my battery voltage with a digital VOM and charge them when they drop 1/2-3/4 of a volt and maintain the water level with distilled water only. The minerals in drinking water and most bottled water will eventually contaminate the areas between the grid plates with calcium and they short out. A fully charged battery will maintain 12.5-12.8 volts after sitting for one month or longer. 20 years ago the battery technology wasn`t what it is today plus most outboards years ago did not have regulated voltage from the alternator and would cook deep cycle batteries. Again, my experience over and over is that people don`t do preventitive maintenance as they should and get 50% life expectancy on just about anything related to a boat; present company excluded of course. Skoot, one other thing to consider to run the biggest battery cables that will fit in the trough for engine starting; about the diameter of your thumb. This always makes sure you have full battery energy for cranking which will maintain the life of your starter. Starters die from low voltage!

[TheKid]

Damn it's hard to post pics on here.

Anyway, This is the setup I am talking about.





Hard to see but the top is a breaker/fuse panel (5-10 amps each) connected to a battery with a thermal circuit breaker @ 90 amps. Breaker should be as close to the battery as possible. Then the standard Perko two battery setup using make before break switch.

This way you can isolate anything to work on it and you can shut off all current to each battery which I like when not in use.

FYI the commons (negative) can all be tied together.

[seabob4]

I


If you decide on a battery switch, make sure you DO NOT connect the positive lead on your automatic bilge pump / float switch to the switch- you want to keep that directly wired to a charged battery, or it wont work with the switch turned off.  Obviously.

Jesse,
You CAN run the constant hot float leads to the battery switch, just wire them to batt 1 or batt 2, not the common post.

Just did the Doc's batt switch on his Talon today.  His console is really small, and there is a lot of stuff in it...sooo, let's make it easy and convenient to get to...



The 3 in-line fuse holders you see just inside the door are for the 3 bilge pump floats...

[gran398]

Like you said Skoot, always good advice. Shifting gears completely, since doesn't sound like you have a lot of amp draw...you could simplify (while saving weight) and go with a single 27 series high-grade...600 CCA, 115 amp/hr. For some reason I've always liked the AC Delco brand. Just something else to think about....

Bob, have seen a lot of nice wiring...but only a couple of "tens." You're right there with 'em buddy.

[gran398]

I run 2 1000 CCA combination deep cycle and starting batteries and run the battery switch on both batteries and never have a problem. I usually get 4 years sometimes 5 before they need to be replaced. Same situation on my flats boat and NEVER trickle charge them. Deep cycle batteries need to be charged at 10 amps to bring them up from a discharge state quickly and always within 12 hours of being discharged. Trickle chargers cause plate erosion in deep cycle batteries and actually shorten their life. I test my battery voltage with a digital VOM and charge them when they drop 1/2-3/4 of a volt and maintain the water level with distilled water only. The minerals in drinking water and most bottled water will eventually contaminate the areas between the grid plates with calcium and they short out. A fully charged battery will maintain 12.5-12.8 volts after sitting for one month or longer. 20 years ago the battery technology wasn`t what it is today plus most outboards years ago did not have regulated voltage from the alternator and would cook deep cycle batteries. Again, my experience over and over is that people don`t do preventitive maintenance as they should and get 50% life expectancy on just about anything related to a boat; present company excluded of course. Skoot, one other thing to consider to run the biggest battery cables that will fit in the trough for engine starting; about the diameter of your thumb. This always makes sure you have full battery energy for cranking which will maintain the life of your starter. Starters die from low voltage!

Fitz, never knew to bring a deep cycle up quickly...you just saved me some money down the road. And re the low guage wire...some riggers way back used welding cable. Not sure of the guage, but was about as big as your thumb....what's the thinking on welding cable?

[MarshMarlowe196]

Hmm.. I've always been of the understanding that letting a deep cycle drop too low in voltage through use or time left uncharged is what causes the erosion of the plates.  When I used the term "trickle" charger, I was referring to a smart charger- charges with high amperage to bring the battery to charged, then "trickles" at 1-2 amps to maintain the charge.  I understand that typical deep cycle batteries, when charged too long or too quickly at higher amps, heat up unnecessarily which causes evaporation of the water inside the battery.

Maybe this is different in a combo battery, but I've never owned one because I like the idea of the two dedicated battery types.  It would make more sense to me to have a combo battery in the boat if I didn't use the troll motor so much.

Thanks for the info on the battery switch SeaBob  

[seabob4]

Scott,
Thanks for the compliment.  The Talon's console is a little...small.  So it's not a lot of fun working in there, but I'm doing my best...

[gran398]

You got it bro....its well-deserved. And based on your client's comments (readily seen on the web) they're happy, and know  that you're happy.

Not getting off-topic here guys...but job satisfaction/appreciation ranks #1 in any profession, way above money (money comes in #5). I feel the same at my job.

But anyhow...thanks for the pics of that small console. Pretty darn close to the new console I have going in. My console will be 27 inches wide. Planned around the small T-Top....so have easy forward passage.

And now.....back to electricity...

[seabob4]

You got it bro....its well-deserved. And based on your client's comments (readily seen on the web) they're happy, and know  that you're happy.

Not getting off-topic here guys...but job satisfaction/appreciation ranks #1 in any profession, way above money (money comes in #5). I feel the same at my job.

But anyhow...thanks for the pics of that small console. Pretty darn close to the new console I have going in. My console will be 27 inches wide. Planned around the small T-Top....so have easy forward passage.

And now.....back to electricity...

Scott,
That console is 24" W by 19" D...I'd take that 3"!!!

Anyway, welding cable has been much discussed over there, what I don't like about it is the strands are bare copper, not tinned.  Obviously much more susceptable to corrosion, IMO.  Even the best adhesive lined shrink sleeve can't keep out all the elements, especially the salt-laden hot humid air we have here in Tampa Bay.

Here's a pic I took today of the Gil Battery trays that I pulled out of the Talon.  Gil trays are some of the best you can buy.  20 years can do a number on anything in our environment...