You guys can't have all the fun - 170 keel

[RickK]

Since the 230 is out of commision for a few more days, I started working on the keel repair of the 170.
I'm guessing that once upon a time a previous owner ran aground on something sharp and a simple repair was done.  When I repainted the boat bottom the 2nd time, I did another simple repair with resin/cabosil and it lasted about 10 years.  When I hit the wake of that cruiser and the windsheild shattered I think it re-injured the "bandaided" area and started the problems I have today.  As I mentioned earlier, the 170 started taking on water and I couldn't figure out where.  JJ and I went fishing around Christmas and again, it took on water and he mentioned that maybe something could be hidden where the keel sits on the front support of the trailer.  I crawled under and looked and sure enough, there was.

After towing the 230 around, I learned what real tongue weight did for towing. I then towed the 170 and realized it was very light on tongue weight (for 18 years I've been towing it with too little tongue weight and didn't realize it, just figured it was a light boat ) so I moved it forward 20" which did 3 things, 1) gave me some tongue weight (tows much better now) 2) exposed more bunk   (which I am going to cut off now) and 3) gave me access to the keel damage. The spot on the right was under the front support.

I started feathering back the paint - 3ft by 5 inches on both sides of keel


and then started really digging in - looks initially like delam here


Then it started grinding away - looking better

Better look at the black, still moist area


I stopped at this point for the day and ran out to Fiberglass Services which I found out started closing on Saturdays :(  however a guy was walking up, from his shop across the street, that has an agreement with the owner to go in and get stuff for his business when he needs it, so he sold me what I needed  
Today, if I get some time, I'm going to dig in a little further and see how bad the area of the black is - I know it has to come out, just have to be careful not to go through and cause more problems .  Plan is to draw a line where I'm going to grind deeper all around for the glass to refill in and then start having fun (or was that the fun?).

[JimCt]

No, you're still in the midst of the fun!

Drawback of bottom paint is it hides damage very well.  Looks like a straight-forward repair job from this end.  Once the area dries out and you re-glass, it ought to be good for another thirty years.

Minor de-rail... You touched on the subject of your trailer and bunk support.  One thing I can't get straight in my thick head is the way bunks support a hull.  In looking at my hull there is a certain amount of rocker, or fore-to-aft camber to the bottom.  The area of the hull, below the stringers where bunks would support it, is not a straight line.  Since bunks are straight along their bearing surfaces from front to back it seems to me bunks cannot possibly support the hull in any more than two, possibly four spots.  Bunks are not conformal so they cannot evenly support a hull with rocker.  Rollers on the other hand are conformal and, in the case of my trailer, have 32 points of support which are pivoted to distribute the load amongst all the rollers.  How is it then that bunk trailers are accepted as providing better support?  Seems stresses would be greater on the hull with bunks.

[RickK]

Minor de-rail... You touched on the subject of your trailer and bunk support.  One thing I can't get straight in my thick head is the way bunks support a hull.  In looking at my hull there is a certain amount of rocker, or fore-to-aft camber to the bottom.  The area of the hull, below the stringers where bunks would support it, is not a straight line.  Since bunks are straight along their bearing surfaces from front to back it seems to me bunks cannot possibly support the hull in any more than two, possibly four spots.  Bunks are not conformal so they cannot evenly support a hull with rocker.  Rollers on the other hand are conformal and, in the case of my trailer, have 32 points of support which are pivoted to distribute the load amongst all the rollers.  How is it then that bunk trailers are accepted as providing better support?  Seems stresses would be greater on the hull with bunks.

Here is how the bunks work on the 170 - supports where the bottom and the chine meet - the bunk is bevelled.  I lucked out that the 170 would even fit on this trailer and this is how it ended up

The bunk supports along that area until it ends - I would say that there is more support - sq/in- than the 2-3sq/in per roller you have.  I'm guessing here.  Then I have the front support.

Now the 230 is a different story and weird I think too!  They have the boat sitting on the strakes - which aren't very wide, on the bunks, so lineup is critical.  My guides are tight to the boat so it lines up on the strakes. Not much strake in the back

More up front, but still not much

Oh well, gotta go mow the lawn.

[warthog5]

I can't see everything in this pix, but before you get happy with the saw on those bunk's.




A long toung on the trailer maneuvers better. It also keep's the tow vehicle out of the water.

I suggest that you move the boat back rearward after your repair is complete and then move the axle reward to get you toung weight.

[John Jones]

A long toung on the trailer maneuvers better. It also keep's the tow vehicle out of the water.

I suggest that you move the boat back rearward after your repair is complete and then move the axle reward to get you toung weight.

What he said!

I mowed the lawn today too.  Much better than shoveling snow  

[RickK]

Right now the rear of the boat is at the rear of the trailer frame.  I liked having the boat where it used to be for all those years - easier to launch and retrieve.  Just moving it forward was a pain to retrieve but figured I'd get used to it.
I have what you see in the pix for rearward movement space - I may get the same tongue weight I have at this time if I move the axle all the way back and the boat back where it was.  Good idea.

[RickK]

Well, I took the last 2 weekends to repair the keel with glass (took a lot of build up) and then gelcoated/sanded/gelcoated it yesterday.  Before painting it I wanted to wet-test it and took it out this morning - was on the water at 730 - beautiful morning.  Been so wrapped up in the 230 lately that I'd forgotten how nice and easy it was to handle the little gal.  Went out for 3 hours by myself and the goal was to put weight up front pushing that area into the water and see if it took any on.  That meant having to bring the fishing poles  
Anyway, motor ran flawlessly as usual (56hrs on her now), probably used 1 gal of gas meaning I didn't run too far.  Incoming tide, caught 3 trash fish - at least I caught something.  Wind was blowing about 15 out of the east and when I called it quits, I decided to stretch her out on the way back in heading south and she actually cracked the 40+ "wall" - 40.5 on gps and still climbing when I had to turn into the channel for the ramp. Might have got another couple tenths out of her as I was trimming her out.
She didn't take on a drop of water     Great to have her back  8)
This afternoon I'll paint it back up and then she'll be ready for the get-together in 2 weeks.
(Sorry, no pix of the reglassing but as you know, it's hard to take pix when your gloves look like an easter egg basket)  

Next weekend, the trailer.

[JimCt]

Another job off the to-do list!  Not to worry, another two will pop up before long.  You're bringing the 170 and not the 230 to the rendezvous?

[John Jones]

Rick,
Make sure that damaged spot was not caused by the trailer.  If that support is too high, bouncing down the road can do some damage if too much weight is on a forward support.  I don't even consider them supports.  They are guides.  Both of my boats have 99% of the weight on the bunks.  My bunks are right under my stringers.  If there is weight on a front guide roller or one of those V guides, think about how many pounds of weight are sitting on a very tiny amount of surface area.

I have the same feeling about roller trailers.  Look at how little of a roller's surface is actually touching the hull.  I wish I could remember which ones but some manuf. recommend against roller trailers because they feel they can warp the hull.  

Anyone want to try to measure the actual supporting surface of a roller?

$0.02

[RickK]

You're bringing the 170 and not the 230 to the rendezvous?

My wife found out that she's having some kind of government audit at her work the Monday after the get-together, so she'll have to work that weekend to get ready.  Needless to say, she won't be there so it is a toss up on which boat I'll bring.  Dave is bringing his 250 as far as I know, so if we're staying out there Friday and Saturday nights, I'll bring the 230. Plus it'll provide some needed shade for people if they want out of the sun. If something comes up and he has to bail out, I'll pull the 170 up that morning. Either way, both are ready.  If I had another tow vehicle AND had known you were coming down, we could have arranged it so you could have pulled the 170 up there.

[RickK]

Rick,
Make sure that damaged spot was not caused by the trailer.  If that support is too high, bouncing down the road can do some damage if too much weight is on a forward support.  I don't even consider them supports.  They are guides.  Both of my boats have 99% of the weight on the bunks.  My bunks are right under my stringers.  If there is weight on a front guide roller or one of those V guides, think about how many pounds of weight are sitting on a very tiny amount of surface area.

Good thing to check I guess.  I thought the damage was done by the previous owner and some rocky bar or oyster bed but who knows, maybe a combination of both. Did look like some delamination so maybe it was trailer damage.  I can check when I move her back on the trailer again and see if it looks like there is a lot of weight on that portion.  Putting more weight on the tongue will hopefully help her to use the springs of the truck and not bounce around on the trailer.

[RickK]

I painted her up and it came out pretty nice.  Found a couple dribbles in the paint on the port side later but it'll wear off soon enough.

JJ, you can barely see the support to the right in this picture -



It's not one of the adjustable types - it's wood on top of a crossmember.  If the hull is resting too much on that portion, any suggestions?  I may have to take you fishing again and pick your brain on this.  Maybe cut a deeper "V" in it or make some guide bunks on a couple cross members?

Latest news, as of this afternoon, is we're still planning on going up Friday the 4th, and spending the weekend up there.  So it looks like the 230 will be going. Plenty of room and a gas grill too.  8)

[RickK]

Jim - check this out here about roller trailers.

[JimCt]

Interesting...

 My only concern with the bunk trailer that came with the 22-2 is being able to launch retrieve single handed.  I have to pull the boat off the trailer onto blocks one of these days so maybe I'll install those slippery strips onto the bunks.  Have heard good reports on them so it's worth a try.  Really don't want to risk poor support and get a situation like yours... if the crack did indeed come from support problems...