Classic AquaSport
Aquasport Model Rebuilds, Mods, Updates and Refreshes => Osprey Style Hull Rebuilds => Flatback 22-2 Rebuilds => Topic started by: Marcel4t on May 13, 2018, 08:27:26 PM
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Hey everyone,
I already introduced myself in the "stop lurking" post. I'll be on here asking questions for a long time. I made a video of my new acquisition, and plan on doing a V-log. I would love some input on what you guys think. Move forward to after pressure washing if you dont want to watch the whole thing to get an idea of what kind of shape it's in.
One odd thing: Gas tank is under the center console? I'm imagining that isn't usual?
Also, the cap is in pretty bad shape, but I imagine I can take it off, stiffen it up, repair it, and reuse it?
Anyways, hope you enjoy watching!
https://youtu.be/-tUemh2pSSs
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So you found a "Diver" model. :great02:
I'm thinking this thread (because of the vid) is your first step in the re-build process so we might move and re-title this topic.
Light reading and a number of good ideas found here.
https://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?board=39.0
Good luck and keep posting. :thumright:
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Thanks!
What is a "Diver" model?
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I'll be following the progress. Only tip I can give is that you might want to adjust the audio levels with the music and the talking, so they are roughly the same volume. Look forward to the next video.
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The clean up really makes a difference. You have a cool project in front of you.
Since your model is 3 piece construction, it’s quite manageable to remove the cap, re-core it, and re-attach. I would advise that you take things a step at time. It’s probably better to do the transom first, then the stringers, then the sole, and finish with the cap; rather than strip everything at once. Even then, you’ll want to take steps to make sure the hull retains it’s shape.
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Cleaned up well.
Several options were available for the FB - one being the viewing windows you found in the baitwell forward of the console in the floor. Some people remove them and fill the holes and not use the baitwell, others leave them in and use the baitwell. You noticed the pickup on the bottom of the hull up by that baitwell, that feeds the baitwell.
The console is not original, that thing is huge. The fuel tank was originally where yours is.
I agree with Capt Bob that we should rename this thread and you should use it to post the progress - are you ok with that?
I couldn't get a real good look at the hull that was beside yours in the field where you picked it up but it looked like another FB. The top of the transom looked different but it may have been rebuilt too.
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Cleaned up well.
Several options were available for the FB - one being the viewing windows you found in the baitwell forward of the console in the floor. Some people remove them and fill the holes and not use the baitwell, others leave them in and use the baitwell. You noticed the pickup on the bottom of the hull up by that baitwell, that feeds the baitwell.
The console is not original, that thing is huge. The fuel tank was originally where yours is.
I agree with Capt Bob that we should rename this thread and you should use it to post the progress - are you ok with that?
I couldn't get a real good look at the hull that was beside yours in the field where you picked it up but it looked like another FB. The top of the transom looked different but it may have been rebuilt too.
I was thinking of keeping the viewing windows, I read a thread about someone replacing them and using a metal frame to secure them in.
Yes, please feel free to rename!
I hope I can find some other FBs in my area to check out and see how they laid them out. The console is big, and with the gas tank down below floor I can use that space for batts and storage. Id like to get some of those tackle drawer inserts for the front maybe.
That other boat was not a FB.
The clean up really makes a difference. You have a cool project in front of you.
Since your model is 3 piece construction, it’s quite manageable to remove the cap, re-core it, and re-attach. I would advise that you take things a step at time. It’s probably better to do the transom first, then the stringers, then the sole, and finish with the cap; rather than strip everything at once. Even then, you’ll want to take steps to make sure the hull retains it’s shape.
I read someplace people build cradles for the hull? I'd like to get the boat off the trailer when Im working on it, so much easier to get in and out.
I'll be following the progress. Only tip I can give is that you might want to adjust the audio levels with the music and the talking, so they are roughly the same volume. Look forward to the next video.
Thanks for the tip, I'll keep the volumes in mind next time for sure.
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Birth of your baby.
http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showgallery.php?cat=559
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Birth of your baby.
http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showgallery.php?cat=559
Thanks Capt! Good read!
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Question...is it normal for the keels on these FB to have a curve?
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20180514_094703.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17024&title=20180514-094703&cat=500)
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Looks like a hook to me but I'm not the expert here.
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Looks like a hook to me too. The good news is, you can fix it when your redo the stringers, and you will have less fairing later.
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Looks like a hook to me too. The good news is, you can fix it when your redo the stringers, and you will have less fairing later.
How do I fix that? Any builds on here that show that process?
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You will need to flip the hull over and "board" it. By that, you need to determine where the hook lies in relation to the hull bottom. Using a very straight (and long) board, you can visually see the shape of your hull bottom and address the high/low spots. Your hull might be fine everywhere except along that keel. You won't really know until then because your eyes can fool you. You might try stretching a string along the bottom now and see what you come up with and yes, there are "hook fixes" in the re-build forum.
Here's one.
https://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=10287.msg131012#msg131012
Good luck. :thumright:
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The build that Capt Bob linked to shows layers of glass and fillers being used to fill in the hollow. That’s a fine method, probably best done after you do your transom, deck and stringers.
If it were my boat, I would try to pull as much hook out as possible prior to rebuilding the stringers. You would need to build cradles that support the hull in a straitened condition. Then you could either use weights, or temporary screws, to pull the hull back out to true. Then when you glass your new stringers in, the hull would retain it’s shape. I would opt for the screws because it gives more control. Of course, it would leave a patch job for the holes.
You would likely still have some exterior fairing to do, but less than if you fill the whole hollow.
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Okay great. I was wanting to put it on a cradle anyways, I like the idea of the boat being down low for me to get in and out of 10000000 times over the course of the rebuild. I tried finding a post that shows the best way to build a cradle to support in correctly?
And I also planning flipping it over for fairing and painting. How that can be done with such a heavy boat in my back yard I'm not sure. But that's last.
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Light reading.
https://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=8901.0
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You can look for a thread in the FB forum by Capt. Matt. He had his sitting near the ground. Hopefully he didn't use photobucket. If he did and you are using the photobucket patch and the right browser (like Mozilla) then you can still see them.
The support doesn't have to support every inch - mostly to keep the shape like the hull sides and the centerline and chines of the hull. As suggested, if you don't over support the hull bottom maybe the hook will "sag out" and then when you lay some layers of 1708 over the bare hull, it'll lock it into place.
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Every flatback ive seen has that hook in the keel, i wouldnt mess with it (unless its in the actual hull bottom). But it doesnt look like the actual hull is hooked much, just the keel strip. Even the nice n straight solid hulls ive seen have had that keel strip curve in em. Although a small hook in the actual hull bottom would probably be a benefit on these hulls to get the bow down.
But do extend the keel just about to the transom aft, tapering back to flat where it ends. Will help it track better...
Use some straight pieces of lumber along/under the keel and chines to keep the hull shape, and pull some strings like mentioned.
I actually like the look of that mako console in there, just needs a frameless windshield about 1/4 the height
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Light reading.
https://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=8901.0
Thank you! Very cool!
You can look for a thread in the FB forum by Capt. Matt. He had his sitting near the ground. Hopefully he didn't use photobucket. If he did and you are using the photobucket patch and the right browser (like Mozilla) then you can still see them.
The support doesn't have to support every inch - mostly to keep the shape like the hull sides and the centerline and chines of the hull. As suggested, if you don't over support the hull bottom maybe the hook will "sag out" and then when you lay some layers of 1708 over the bare hull, it'll lock it into place.
RickK I am SOOOOOO grateful for you letting me know there is a Photobucket Patch! I just added it to Chrome. Whew!!
Every flatback ive seen has that hook in the keel, i wouldnt mess with it (unless its in the actual hull bottom). But it doesnt look like the actual hull is hooked much, just the keel strip. Even the nice n straight solid hulls ive seen have had that keel strip curve in em. Although a small hook in the actual hull bottom would probably be a benefit on these hulls to get the bow down.
But do extend the keel just about to the transom aft, tapering back to flat where it ends. Will help it track better...
Use some straight pieces of lumber along/under the keel and chines to keep the hull shape, and pull some strings like mentioned.
I actually like the look of that mako console in there, just needs a frameless windshield about 1/4 the height
I'll do a string test as soon as the rain stops here in South FL, its been torrential.
And I didnt know it was a Mako console, I like it, and I had same idea about a frame-less shorter windshield, Great minds think alike!
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Got the floor ripped out. The guy I bought it from said the floors and stringers had been repaired from the livewell back, and it seems to be the case. They feel solid. There is one broken stringer up front, port side. Also, the stringer that runs along the hull seems to be missing glass on the top.
So, questions:
1. I want to put a tank under floor, is it okay to cut that middle stringer out enough to put a tank in, and then put a build bulkhead behind tank?
2. How do I check to see if the stringer foam is not wet? It does seem there are some areas water could have gotten in on top. I know I will be cutting off the strips of wood they have on top of all the stringers, and will replace with composite of some type.
3. I thought I read that flat backs dont have liners? Mine has a liner. I imagine if I took it out, it would be a lot more work to make the inside of hull smooth for paint?
4. How would you guys repair that front stringer? What would have been a cause for it to break like that??
5. Anything that you guys can see that looks bad/odd/needing attention?
Thanks!
I keep flipping that last pic clockwise, but the change doesnt stick.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20180528_195001.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17070&title=71-fb-222-stringers&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20180528_194949.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17069&title=71-fb-222-stringers&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20180528_194941.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17068&title=71-fb-222-stringers&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20180528_190848.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17066&title=71-fb-222-stringers&cat=500)
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1. I want to put a tank under floor, is it okay to cut that middle stringer out enough to put a tank in, and then put a build bulkhead behind tank?
Hopefully someone who has actually done this will chime in here. I’d be inclined to leave as much of the original structure as possible. Would 2 tanks be an option? It should also be possible to cut the center stringer down in height and put in a floor on top of it to support the new tank.
2. How do I check to see if the stringer foam is not wet? It does seem there are some areas water could have gotten in on top. I know I will be cutting off the strips of wood they have on top of all the stringers, and will replace with composite of some type.
You can drill small holes aft at the bottom of the stringers and look for water. You also should be able to touch the foam near the open areas that you describe, the break too. Squease the foam if water comes out or it feels like a wet sponge, you should replace.
3. I thought I read that flat backs dont have liners? Mine has a liner. I imagine if I took it out, it would be a lot more work to make the inside of hull smooth for paint?
I can’t think of a reason to remove it. You already have a 3 piece boat.
4. How would you guys repair that front stringer? What would have been a cause for it to break like that??
Grind back to clean glass and tab it in with layers of glass. You can use screws and a temporary backer to pull it into alignment.
5. Anything that you guys can see that looks bad/odd/needing attention?
I’d pressure wash the whole thing. Then inspect the tabbing of stringers to the hull. Look for cracks or areas of dry or broken glass.
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Thank you for the reply.
The front stringers look good, but the fronts will need attention.
As far as the liner, I guess it adds another step in closing in the transom, as I have to remove it to be able to tab the transom into the inside of the hull.
I pressure washed the inside and will post a vid of what the inside looks like.
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As far as the liner, I guess it adds another step in closing in the transom, as I have to remove it to be able to tab the transom into the inside of the hull.
Yes, but it is so much easier to tab in and fair 18” of liner than the to fair and prep the hull sides.
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Oh yes, I didnt think of that! Thanks!
I wish someone could chime in on how I can put a tank below deck :sign0085:
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I put mine under the deck. I cut the center stringer on the backside of the center compartment back to the stepdown in the top of the stringer. Put a bulkhead at that point. I made my own tank ended up being just over 40 gal. Once I remove the section I glassed the whole area to tie the hull and stringers together. Hope this make sense. I see your in Boynton I grew up in lantana now I live in the Acerage area. If you have any question let me know.
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Here's pic. of mine. Keep it up you'll enjoy yours when it's done.
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Basic ideas.
https://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=9842.msg102175#msg102175
https://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=14384.0
https://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=10789.msg105572#msg105572
Many of the Flatback re-builders removed the stringer system and built new. This allows for designing space for a below deck tank. If however you are keeping what you have, you have to first decide where the tank will be located and then remove the center stringer to allow for it. Build a bulkhead and create a "coffin' for the tank then re-attach the center stringer to the new bulkhead. If you keep the "windows', you'll need more room aft.
First, you must decide on tank size. Visit the Moeller site to get ideas on tank size and dimensions.
http://moellermarine.com/product-category/fuel-containment/permanent-fuel-tanks/
Good luck. :thumright:
Mod Edit: I see FL. beat me to it. :great02:
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I put mine under the deck. I cut the center stringer on the backside of the center compartment back to the stepdown in the top of the stringer. Put a bulkhead at that point. I made my own tank ended up being just over 40 gal. Once I remove the section I glassed the whole area to tie the hull and stringers together. Hope this make sense. I see your in Boynton I grew up in lantana now I live in the Acerage area. If you have any question let me know.
Okay great, thank you! I actually read your post about your frames for windows. I'm sure Boynton has changed a lot since you grew up here huh? Is there any chance I can come check out your boat? It looks beautiful, and I can pick your brain.
Basic ideas.
https://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=9842.msg102175#msg102175
https://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=14384.0
https://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=10789.msg105572#msg105572
Many of the Flatback re-builders removed the stringer system and built new. This allows for designing space for a below deck tank. If however you are keeping what you have, you have to first decide where the tank will be located and then remove the center stringer to allow for it. Build a bulkhead and create a "coffin' for the tank then re-attach the center stringer to the new bulkhead. If you keep the "windows', you'll need more room aft.
First, you must decide on tank size. Visit the Moeller site to get ideas on tank size and dimensions.
http://moellermarine.com/product-category/fuel-containment/permanent-fuel-tanks/
Good luck. :thumright:
Mod Edit: I see FL. beat me to it. :great02:
And thanks Capt! You took time to attach links. The last link really shows how to set a tank in with the middle stringer modified. I know a lot of guys take all the stringers out and make their own, and I am tempted to do that, but this is first major rebuild and the extra complexity of doing that makes me pause.
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PM sent
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x2 on the pressure wash/clean out first to see whats going on. I would eliminate that center stringer altogether (at least from livewell aft) and run some kind of keel stiffener and put some bulkheads in. That way you can have an actual bilge compartment in the rear, along with the new tank compartment.
Hope the stringers dont need to be totally removed!
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Okay, here is a video of my floor after pressure washing. I did drill some holes in the stringers towards the back, and the bottoms have some wetness. Take a look and let me know what you guys think?
Thanks!
https://youtu.be/yxNeQUbxs60
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Front section definitely looks rough. Looking like that area needs rebuilding. As far as the hard stuff on top of the srtingers. Mine had the same stuff, thinking it's some type of bedding material for the floor.
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x2 on the pressure wash/clean out first to see whats going on. I would eliminate that center stringer altogether (at least from livewell aft) and run some kind of keel stiffener and put some bulkheads in. That way you can have an actual bilge compartment in the rear, along with the new tank compartment.
Hope the stringers dont need to be totally removed!
I think the stringers are solidly attached to hull, other than the front port side.
Any ideas on a keel stiffener? Ive seen PVC pipe cut in half glassed over on the keel, maybe that would be an option? Also, the keel has a strip of wood in them correct? I bet that needs some attention.
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It looks like the previous owners stringer rebuild consisted of some wood glassed to the tops and thats about it...
First thing i would do is make sure the hull is supported nicely, then cut the tops off the stringers and dig the foam out to have a better look at the tabbing onto the hull. At the very minimum i would tab the insides of the stringers to the hull, if the outside tabbing is stuck well.
Go ahead and remove the chine "stringers" too. Prepare to use that yellow crowbar :great02:
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It looks like the previous owners stringer rebuild consisted of some wood glassed to the tops and thats about it...
First thing i would do is make sure the hull is supported nicely, then cut the tops off the stringers and dig the foam out to have a better look at the tabbing onto the hull. At the very minimum i would tab the insides of the stringers to the hull, if the outside tabbing is stuck well.
Go ahead and remove the chine "stringers" too. Prepare to use that yellow crowbar :great02:
I'm going to assume that the hull is not supported good enough on the trailer huh? I want to take it off trailer anyways, doing it in my back yard with no heavy lifting equipment other than a 3 ton jack will be a challenge.
And good to know chine stringers can come out, thanks!
And
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Are you going to make a ground cradle? A engine hoist will easily lift the front or rear. To slide the trailer from under it.
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Yes, I would like to build a ground cradle (making it easier to get in and out 1000000). And cool, I will I'll rent an engine hoist. And be VERY careful.
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You asked a few questions in the video (nice video by the way) -
The notch in the starboard stringer in the aft - in the early boats the top of the deck was sealed from the bilge and there was a trough that ran from in front of the engine (had the scupper drains there), to the starboard side and forward to the console. This trough is used to run wires, harnesses, fuel line (console was inside the console, above deck) and steering. The trough had a lid that was screwed down every foot or so. So that notch in the stringer allowed the trough to run across the aft of the boat.
The round tube like things in the front were used to pull the hull from the mold - that's all.
Chris (dirtwheelsFL) has a FB and has rebuilt a few of these things, so he's a great resource for you. Also look for a rebuild by Hawgleg.
FL.FB replaced his windows and is rebuilding his FB also.
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How's it coming along?
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Its going kind of slow with all this rain, it's been practically non-stop for weeks. And when its not raining, the heat has me limited to an hour before I tap out. I just got a 10x20 canopy to set up so that will help with both issues.
I got the transom wood out, wish my big compressor wasn't broken, an air hammer would have worked wonders. Been obtaining more tools and supplies. US composites is not far from me, I got 2 sheets of 3/4 coosa, few gallons of epoxy, few yards of 1708, cabisol, and a few other things. I have also been buying tools to help, like a dust collection shroud for my angle grinder, it awesome!
Got more grinding on the skin and hull floor/sides. I also want to make sure the boat is dried out totally before I start laying glass.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20180602_201120.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17181&title=20180602-201120&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20180605_180201.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17182&title=20180605-180201&cat=500)
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A GRIND-A-THON!! :woohoo:
Boy do I remember those days. Harbor freight 4 and 7" angle grinders with flap sanding disks in 40 or less grit - WHAM - it's gone :8):
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She was due. Good call on the Coosa. I look forward to watching more videos on this build. There are not many aquasport rebuild videos out there, and I really wish there were, especially when I was just getting my feet wet.
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How far do I tab the transom into the hull?
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I did roughly 12" on first layer then 8, 6. Any new pics?
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If you’re putting 4 layers of glass on your inner skin, 4”, 6”, 8”, and 12” Work pretty well. If 3 layers then 6”, 9”, and 12”. I think most people work largest to smallest.
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So, basically I need around 14" from transom outer skin cleaned up? I'm gonna have to cut the stringers back more.
So, on this pic, do I need to grind back to the yellow arrow, or is the green mat okay? It's pretty thick and seems well bonded.
Also, in the corner where the hull and transom meet, how much of the old resin do I need to get out? Its pretty flat right now, but there is still some left.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20180619_181743.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17196&title=20180619-181743&cat=500)
Finally got a canopy, so much better under their in this SOFL sun and rain.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20180619_181519.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17195&title=20180619-181519&cat=500)
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You definitely want clean undamaged glass everywhere your tabbing will lay. It should be completely dull with no loose matt or globs of resin.
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Do the best you can in the corners, you will need to lay in a nice thick fillet in the corners before you lay the cloth, so being totally cleaned out isn't really required. Make yourself a "filleting tool" or 3, all different sizes and radius. I used paint stirring sticks, small and large and then I used some 1/4" scrap I had laying around and used a 1 1/4" socket to mark the radius and trimmed it. That is the one I used in the corners of the transom/sides and transom/hull bottom.
Now you are about to create a problem for yourself - moving the lowest part of the boat forward. Check these links out:
Here is a link to where I explain the thought of the PVC pipe
http://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=13148.msg133124#msg133124
Here is a link to where I show what is actual problem
http://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=13148.msg133556#msg133556
Here is a link to Hawgleg's rebuild that shows the PVC pipe installation to keep a drain at the new low point of the boat
http://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=13148.msg134262#msg134262
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Thanks Rick about the drain issue, I saw that before, good to know! Do you suggest lowering the original hole in the transom? its above the floor a good 1/2 inch. That way the drain is laying on the floor. Id like to put a garbord into it with the type of plug that screws out but doesn't come out completely, like below.
Is that going to be possible with a long PVC pipe?
https://www.partsvu.com/50-18661-ss-garboard-drain-plug-prem.html
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Posted a new vid, similar to the last one I posted here before, some added content.
https://youtu.be/MNaM3xobItw
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Thanks Rick about the drain issue, I saw that before, good to know! Do you suggest lowering the original hole in the transom? its above the floor a good 1/2 inch. That way the drain is laying on the floor. Id like to put a garbord into it with the type of plug that screws out but doesn't come out completely, like below.
Is that going to be possible with a long PVC pipe?
https://www.partsvu.com/50-18661-ss-garboard-drain-plug-prem.html
You shouldn't have to worry about the original drain hole, the water will drain out no problem through the pipe.
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Made a new video of my progress. If you have 15 mins to waste, watch and let me know what you think, if I am missing anything or have advice to give, I more than welcome it!
https://youtu.be/N62XiM59IQg
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And I thought my transom had a lot of holes... Couple things to comment on, the angle grinder guard firstly. It isn't always about them kicking back, sometimes those wheels let go. You can have the firmest hand around, but when the wheel goes to pieces, they are moving fast. I have seen it twice so far on my rebuild. I took a piece to the foot hard enough that it would have busted out teeth had it gone the other direction. Take the extra minute and throw it on there. The rivets in the side of the hull forward of the transom held the original Aquasport logos.
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That video takes me right back to doing the same thing, minus the itching. Sure is coming along nicely. Don't forget if you want to swing by and check mine out for some ideas let me know. Just went out of Boynton the other weekend, great for drifting over the reef. Keep up the good work :thumleft:.
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Noted on the wheel shattering, never had that happen, but that does scare me, so guess I gotta get a guard now..lol
Can't wait to take it outta the inlet, turn left and drift for Sails in front of the Ritz.
So, looking at this outter skin, its wavy as heck, will this definitely straighten out when I lay glass on it with the 3/4 melamine behind it?
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20180712_172114.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17337&title=20180712-172114&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20180712_172127.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17338&title=20180712-172127&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20180712_172110.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17336&title=20180712-172110&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20180712_172102.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17335&title=20180712-172102&cat=500)
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That's a tough call. I left the entire back skin and patched/faired the transom - never got it totally straight with the melamine. The only way to get rid of that bow it cut it off and leave 2" all the way or none and start from the inside and lay up 3 layers of 1708 against the melamine. Make sure you brace the hull so it retains it's shape. There are examples of both in the rebuild forums - mostly the 222 FB forum.
One example I remember is by Shine.
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So you were able to get yours straight eventually with some effort? I'm thinking of cutting the really bad areas on the upper sides. Or may also see if it straightens up when I get some melamine screwed on. Do you usually leave the melamine on until after you put the transom material in?
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Okay, so I think I figured out why the back of transom is pulling in, the outer hull is bulging out. A lot. Like 4 inches in 16 inches away from transom. I guess I gotta get it up on blocks and off the trailer? Is it normal for the hull to fatten out after the transom for a bit? I wish I had measured before I started cutting everything...rookie mistake.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20180713_191302.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17340&title=20180713-191302&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20180713_191323.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17341&title=20180713-191323&cat=500)
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Most boats of this era carry their maximum beam forward of the transom. Since your outer skin is intact, you’re not far off in your measurements. You can clamp 2x4s across your transom to pull things flat when you bond in your transom core, or use a piece of waxed melamine. There is actually a bit of tumble home in the transom of my CCP.
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Okay cool. I just looked up the meaning and origin of Tumble home, it's that inwards curve on top part of hull. Old ships used to put a lot of it on their boats to make it really hard for enemies to board their boat, as the curve would be greased up and they would tumble (fall) home into the sea.
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I never totally got the bow out of my transom, even with fairing. Not a big deal, but it is not flat across the width.
Here are a couple examples of transom rebuilds to give you some ideas
http://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=9991.0
https://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=11294
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Okay, so tell me if this looks okay.
I took a sheet melamine and screwed a straight 2 x 4 to the back to keep it stiff.
I tried screwing the skin to the melamine from the back, but the glass would just break. So I screwed from the inside, first counter sinking a hole in the inside skin, drilling a very small hole out the back of the melamine (so I knew where the screws are later) and then screwed the skin onto the melamine from the inside with stainless steel screws. I waxed the melamine several times.
My plan is to take a small hole saw and drill out around the screws from the outside and take the melamine off (since the screws will be glassed over on the inside). Then I can cut the screws down, grind them below the surface, and the heads will stay in there. Hope this makes sense.Thoughts on leaving the screw heads in their?
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20180716_183958.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17352&title=20180716-183958&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20180716_184118.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17353&title=20180716-184118&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20180716_184134.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17355&title=20180716-184134&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20180716_184129.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17354&title=20180716-184129&cat=500)
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I think that will get you flat, but I wouldn't leave screw heads in place. I would grind them out and fill after the transom is rebuilt. Even more so if they aren't stainless. moisture finds its way into places you wouldn't think it can. Rusting metal swelling inside your glass isn't optimal. An ounce of prevention.
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Why not bolt through your melamine, skin and through your core. You can use squares of polyethylene and backing pads on the inside of your skin. Kind of like this:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/Transom_Clamped_Inside.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=14423&title=transom-clamped-int&cat=500)
The bolts just tap out. Then you have 3/8” holes to fill. Otherwise, the screws will be at the center of your pilot for your hole saw, not a recipe for success.
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Humm...I thought of that too...I was wondering how I could lay up the first layers of glass straight before putting in the core. Do you think I could lay up 3 layers of glass, with the transom skin all wavy, then put core in and clamp it, and it should straighten everything out?
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I think that will get you flat, but I wouldn't leave screw heads in place. I would grind them out and fill after the transom is rebuilt. Even more so if they aren't stainless. moisture finds its way into places you wouldn't think it can. Rusting metal swelling inside your glass isn't optimal. An ounce of prevention.
I was thinking of that also as a possibility, id have to get through 3 layers of glass to get to screw heads, but shouldn't be that hard to do?
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Humm...I thought of that too...I was wondering how I could lay up the first layers of glass straight before putting in the core. Do you think I could lay up 3 layers of glass, with the transom skin all wavy, then put core in and clamp it, and it should straighten everything out?
With epoxy, yes. Put the hardner in the refrigerator, have your glass cut to size, and be prepared to work quickly. I wouldn’t attempt it with poly or vinylester.
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You should be able to put 3 layers in and let cure, then come back and sand a bit before gluing in the core. I wouldnt try to do it wet on wet,, too much going on. Those 3 layers wont lock the shape in. Once the core is glued in then your pretty much stuck with the shape/fairness...
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Marcel4t, are you able to see the pictures in the links I posted above? If not, google "Photobucket patch" and install for the browser you're using.
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You should be able to put 3 layers in and let cure, then come back and sand a bit before gluing in the core. I wouldnt try to do it wet on wet,, too much going on. Those 3 layers wont lock the shape in. Once the core is glued in then your pretty much stuck with the shape/fairness...
The thing is that without screwing the skin down, its pulled away from the melamine around 1" in some places. Its strange that it's warping in so much like it is.
Marcel4t, are you able to see the pictures in the links I posted above? If not, google "Photobucket patch" and install for the browser you're using.
Rick, yes I am able to see those pics, thank you for the links, I think Im just having a different issue than some people in that my outer skin is so warped but I'm trying to save it.
I slept on it and woke up deciding to cut away some of the skin, maybe leave a 4-5" lip. It's loaded with holes anyways.
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Dirt’s advise is good. He’s done a lot of kick a** rebuilds. Even with three additional layers, your outer skin will remain quite flexible. Think fishing rod. They are fiberglass and flex a lot. After your three layers, just use a knotched trowel to apply your bonding mix (cabosi/resin). You could also include a layer of CSM here if you want. Then, when you clamp and bolt your core to your melamine mold, it will pull things flat.
Even though your outer skin has holes, it will make it far easier to keep your boat’s shape.
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If you are going to cut most of the transom out (which might be the best way), remember to secure a piece of wood across the beam of the hull (especially at the rear) in a few places to secure her shape.
Don't forget that you'll need to lay in resin fillets all around the inside of the transom, to round out the corners so the 1708 can traverse the corner (that stuff doesn't bend real easy) and remember that PVC pipe thing I linked to - now is the time to lay that in.
PS: look through the rebuilds done by Dirt and see what tips you can pic up. The boy's good. :salut2:
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Yea, so I tend to over think things sometimes. I went back and screwed from the outside, while the screws were still on inside holding the skin flat. I then removed the inside screws and cut off the ends of the screws sticking out. Skins is flat.
The first screws I used were fine thread which I don't think held as strong as course thread.
Thanks for all the input. You'll see I do this sometimes were I geek out over small things.
Now onto laying fillets, 3 layers of glass, then Coosa. Im excited!
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Looking good so far. Getting the transom in is a big step. Keep the pics coming 👍
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Got all the glass cut to size for inner skin! I have 5 layers, 2 to fill in some of the space of the void that's being closed in, and then 3 with tabs going 12", 8" and 4". I'm using DirtwheelsFl's method of clamping all the layers on top, flipping them all over the back, then pulling them back into boat one at a time to lay up. Going to do it first this tomorrow morning, as this afternoon was a "feels like" of 104*. My GF is going to help, mixing epoxy while I am in boat spreading fillets then laying glass.
Im super excited!!
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20180721_155236.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17383&title=20180721-155236&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/Screenshot_20180721-155343_Weather.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17384&title=screenshot-20180721-155343-weather&cat=500)
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I like the method, it makes a ton of sense to me. Stay cool over there.
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Got 5 layers of glass put in! 2 in the void that's being closed in, and 3 on top of that. Tabbed 12"-8"-4". I think I may add a couple more layers in the area being closed in, still not even with the rest of the glass. Onto the Coosa install!
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20180724_084832.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17390&title=20180724-084832&cat=500)
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Glad to see you put the pipe in - wish I had thought of it before I did my transom. You'll be happy, especially after you add 3 more layers of glass in front of the core. Looks good.
Next step is to let cure for a while - I would wait until next weekend to make sure it's cured. The scruff it with a 60 or 80 grit flap sanding wheel. Then mix a thick resin mix to use for fillets in the corners and to trowel onto the inside of the transom, then lay in your core and clamp it in. Have you figured out how you're going to clamp it in?
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Thanks Rick! Im going to clamp it by using 4 x 4s on both side, clamped together with threaded rods and bolts. Im going to try and use some of the 73 holes already in transom as I can. I was not aware epoxy needed that long to cure, good to know.
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You have the slow, medium and fast mix of epoxy and that is dependant on the climate. Slow in the summer is ok but has a mind of it's own, fast in the summer may catch you by surprise. Slow in the winter - oh my, it could be a week, while fast may be a day. You have to experiment and waiting too long for it to totally cure is never an issue. Better safe than sorry.
Now, Poly has a short fuse as per time.....You end up hoping it will not set before you are done laminating!! Epoxy has much more cure time.
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Yea, I am using medium US Composites epoxy.
Today's my B-day, and my girlfriend got me this! It's coming in from Japan though, so the wait will be agonizing...
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/9031.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17412&title=9031&cat=500)
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You have the slow, medium and fast mix of epoxy and that is dependant on the climate. Slow in the summer is ok but has a mind of it's own, fast in the summer may catch you by surprise. Slow in the winter - oh my, it could be a week, while fast may be a day. You have to experiment and waiting too long for it to totally cure is never an issue. Better safe than sorry.
Now, Poly has a short fuse as per time.....You end up hoping it will not set before you are done laminating!! Epoxy has much more cure time.
I used Raka with slow hardner for almost everything. There were some winter days I used some fast for bonding. This was for Florida. You can also adjust the cure time by controlling the temperature. For example keep the epoxy in the AC before use, or even refrigerate the hardner overnight before use.
One thing that I would add to what Rick said. If you can dent the surface with a thumbnail(generally <24hrs), you can recoat without sanding. This can save you a lot of work, plus you get a chemical bond between layers. Less work+ stronger bond= good thing.
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:b-day3:
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:b-day3:
Thanks Rick! It was a good B-day!
Got this done today, ready to be clamped in. I forgot where I read it, but someone suggested setting the sides of the transom 1/2" below the hull side, so it could be capped off. Thank you for that suggestion. I beveled the top also so a cap could lay flat on top.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20180728_163522.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17413&title=20180728-163522&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20180728_163544.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17415&title=20180728-163544&cat=500)
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Man you're really moving along. Don't look like the rain here has slowed you down. :thumright:
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Man you're really moving along. Don't look like the rain here has slowed you down. :thumright:
Seems like the rain has been hovering over your house out in the Everglades much more. I actually like it when it rains, suns gone so it's cooler and Im under canopy. i have been getting excited, so been putting more energy into it lately.
Let me know when you can swing on by.
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Newest video of the transom rebuild.
Hope you guys like these. I was looking and looking for good outboard rebuild vids and couldnt find many. Hopefully these help people down the road.
https://youtu.be/rtbqUFsE4XY
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That was a good watch, I loved the time-lapse of the layup.
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Yup, good video and I agree that the time lapse was fun to watch. If it only took that little time to do this stuff...
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Yea, there was a lot more time lapse but cam batt died. Sometimes I feel like I have to move that fast though!
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This is turning into a really well documented rebuild.
:great02:
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Now you have experience with the cure time of that brand and mix of epoxy. I know I was really nervous the first time I did a big mix for the transom. I was used to poly cure times (quick) but pleasantly surprised with the epoxy cure (unless I really wanted it to cure quicker).
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Great build so far. I actually found your YouTube videos a while ago and didn't realize this was the same boat. Keep up the good work!
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Got the transom core in!!! And Mike, that's cool you were able to find my vid before, I wasnt sure if it would show up in searches. There has to be more rebuild vids out there, but they seem kind of hard to find.
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Newest Vid! Action packed!!
https://youtu.be/-PLI_8gfjTE
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:great02:
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I check daily for your vids. Keep them coming. You're doing great work.
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:a0002: IM DONE WITH THIS HEAT! I havent done much for a bit, went on vacation to Asheville, NC, so pretty.
Anyways, so I laid the inside skin. I have some air bubbles...grrrrr. But I also have these areas that I dont think are air pockets, I rolled them over an over. What does this look like?
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20180825_150352.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17576&title=20180825-150352&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20180825_150346.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17575&title=20180825-150346&cat=500)
I also dropped her down on blocks so I can start working on stringers. I dropped the trailer down below her by taking off wheels, that way I dont have to have a trailer taking up space in my yard for a year or so.
How does this look as far as where I have it blocked? Good spots?
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20180825_150234.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17573&title=20180825-150234&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20180825_150215.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17572&title=20180825-150215&cat=500)
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I don't think those are air bubbles, but maybe a little dry on the resin. The good news is don't worry about it - you're using epoxy and it's connected.
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I had some spots that looked like that when doing one of my tank area bulkheads. I wasn't working fast enough and the resin was starting to kick before I got the next layer down, and once it kicked no amount of rolling was going to squeeze that air out. I ended up cussing, grinding, and doing it again.
The hotter is is outside, the thicker you lay it up, and the more catalyst you use (in poly and vinyl) the faster things go.
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I don't think those are air bubbles, but maybe a little dry on the resin. The good news is don't worry about it - you're using epoxy and it's connected.
Okay, yea, I felt like I laid a lot of resin down, maybe I squeezed to much out with the laminating roller? Anyway, it seems solid, and like you said Rick its epoxy. There are definetly some air bubbles in a few of the sides. I didnt allow the fillets to kick enough, so they were to soft.
I had some spots that looked like that when doing one of my tank area bulkheads. I wasn't working fast enough and the resin was starting to kick before I got the next layer down, and once it kicked no amount of rolling was going to squeeze that air out. I ended up cussing, grinding, and doing it again.
The hotter is is outside, the thicker you lay it up, and the more catalyst you use (in poly and vinyl) the faster things go.
I'm using epoxy, and working fast as heck, dont think it kicked. Those light spots were there even when it was fully wet and I was running over the spots again and again. In looking closer, I may have just messed up with fabric itself. Im gonna run a sander over it and see if it is solid or hallow.
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How much work are you doing on the stringers? Reason I ask is if you're doing a lot to them you may want to consider a few extra supports for the hull. I'm far from an expert but I would want more than just three places braced if I was cutting stringers.
I picked up a four pack of camper leveling jacks on Amazon for $39 and they work great. I have two on the back and two close to the front along with two old tires to support the keel and it is really stable. My yard is a little sloped where the boat is so it's great to be able to level it as well.
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Did you have sweat dropping into your layup?
Same thing happened when I was doing Luke's transom is why I asked and I'm certain it was sweat.
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That makes a lot of sense, I was sweating a lot!
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Posted Part 6 of my build. Not a lot of building content, but I do ask the question "Why do we like to fix old stuff?" Hope you all enjoy, I have been enjoying making these. I give a shot out to you all as well..thank you guys for making this process so much more enjoyable!!
https://youtu.be/qHdbPDWmZKQ
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Great vid, I loved the Dumb and Dumber reference!
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Hey Marcel - do you weigh the cloth and then mix enough resin to cover the cloth?
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No I do not, didn't even know that was a thing. Do you think I may have used to little or to much epoxy?
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Callyb shared this with me to save resin and to give you an idea of how much to mix.
I bought a digital postal scale for this. I cut all the cloth for the area working and fold up so you can put it on the scale to weigh - see the math in this pic. Scroll down to reply 702.
http://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=10101.690
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1141.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9358&title=cimg1141&cat=646)
The cloth weighed 3 lbs, 1.3 oz so you convert to ounces. I added another 8 oz or so to total 56 oz. You divide by three and come up with the amount of resin in ounces.
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You learn something new everyday! Thank you, I will look into getting a scale
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Only caution with this is, larger batches kick faster and give you less working time. Things are far more relaxed if you mix 3) 16oz batches than if you mix a single 48 oz batch.
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Yup, you need to get the resin out of the bucket quickly.
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So on a totally different note, I am considering where to put my live well. Being that I want to keep the viewing windows in the hull, which doesnt allow me to put the gas tank further forward, I was considering putting my live well in front of my center console. There is already a seat there, and I could raise it up, put a well in there, and people could still sit on top of it. And when I use a cast net from front of boat, its a closer walk to dump bait in the well too.
Any thoughts on this idea? Something like this:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/sea-born-sx239-forward-console-well_1_.png) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17607&title=sea-born-sx239-forward-console-well-1&cat=500)
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It totally depends on how important live bait fishing is to you and what kinds of baits you use. Some baits are hardy like shrimp, crabs and pinkish. Some are fragile, like menhaden. How many baits will you need to carry. For example, will you do any live chumming?
The further forward that you locate your livewell, your bait will receive a rougher ride. That’s why so many boats have the livewell in the transom. It’s easier on the bait. Of course, it’s a lot of weight aft for an older boat design. Depending on size, a livewell in the console seat should be ok for shrimp, crabs pinfish ar a few dozen finger mullet, but less so for fragile baits or large quantities. If keeping a lot of fragile baits alive is important, the leaning post is a good compromise for older boats.
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How big of a well were you thinking about? I wouldn't imagine that you could get a very big one up there and still sit on it without blocking the driver's view. Also, how many batteries are you going with and where will they be located? I am only planning in using a 24 gal livewell which when full would be about 200 lbs, (Give or take 8lbs/gal) and glassing it into the transom. With the batteries being almost 50 lbs each, I figured I could put them further forward to offset that weight. Plus, you don't always have the well full but you will always have the batteries on board.
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I like using larger baits, like Google eyes and blue runners when I drift for sails, kinds, mahi and wahoo. So, I will need a decent sized well. Didnt think about being blocked by someone sitting on a tall well.
Guess I'll do a baitwell/leaning post that seems to be popular.
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You'll probably want about a 40 gallon well then.
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Thank you for advice on live well.
Another question fellas! I want to raise the floor up a couple inches from stock, yet it seems like this floor may possibly have been risen already. I just want to make sure. If you notice in the first picture, someone capped the stringers with wood and then glassed over. Was the original floor sitting directly on top of the stringers or was there bedding compound that lifted it up 3/4"? On the sides where the floor meets the liner, it seems like that is the stock place where the floor meets it.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20180918_155038.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17692&title=20180918-155038&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20180918_154745.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17690&title=20180918-154745&cat=500)
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Now that you know what a rebuilt area looks like, did you see anything that made you think the hull had been rebuilt before? The liner appears to still be original.
I don't have a FB but I do have a '71 170 and there was a good layer of bonding putty on top of the stringers - 3/4" probably easily (I had replaced the floor 10 years or so years before this total rebuild).
Now we have seen wood in some weird places and what we thought might have been Friday afternoon hulls. It's possible that they lam'd in some wood to attach the console and maybe a t-top - hard to know. The wood looks to be in good shape. Is there evidence of screw holes in it and where is the wood in relation to the console location?
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The owner told me that the floor had been replaced. And the wood that's on top of the stringers is glassed-in on top of the original stringers. Does not look stock at all. And the wood runs along all the stringers. So I don't believe it's just for a console.
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I just went back through some pictures of mine and the bedding compound was pretty flattened out and only 1/4 to a 1/2" max all the way down the stringer, and no wood on top at all.
In the second pic of yours it almost looks like the previous owner glassed in a small angle, or cleat if you will, on the side for the floor to sit on and then poured some foam on top to fill it all in.
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It's strange looking huh? Anyways, I guess I'll just go off the top of the stringers under the wood as far as height. I'm thinking of raising the floor 2+".
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The owner told me that the floor had been replaced. And the wood that's on top of the stringers is glassed-in on top of the original stringers. Does not look stock at all. And the wood runs along all the stringers. So I don't believe it's just for a console.
If someone has been in there before then it makes sense it was done by them. When I replaced my floor way back when, I needed to support the new floor that I laid on top of a ledge left by cutting out the floor. I built it up with a piece of 5/8" fencing on all the stringer tops and that wood was still there in fine shape when I demo'd the boat on this rebuild. So what is your plan to build your up?
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Definitely looks added later. It looks like dimensional lumber (not ply) and not verry well encapsulated with glass. If it was original to your flatly, it would be rotted or at least black with mold.
Maybe someone who has, or has rebuilt, a flatback can give you some info on deck height. Higher helps with self bailing, but may raise center of gravity. The CG thing may be more important if you’re adding a tower.
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Okay, cool. Ive seen a few FB builds where they raised the floor, and also had towers. I will have a T-top. So I think I'll raise floor 2 1/2 inches by using 3/4" + 1/2" Coosa on the stringers and having my bulkheads that level also.
The counsole was screwed down with around 20 screws, into floor and in some places into the wood of stringers. I will probably glass the console down. The consloe also has the T top attached, so its gotta be held down good.
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Here is a link to where Aaron shows, explains his fence post use for raising the deck height
https://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=9842.msg114017#msg114017
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That sounds like a lot of $$$ in Coosa! I'm using fence posts as well. I took a 5" post and ripped it in half on the table saw to get the 2 1/2" height I wanted. The 5" posts were a little thicker than the 4" ones already. Then Marine surplus has a bunch of rolls of 1700 in 6, 8 and 10 inch for $20-30 a piece that I'm using to wrap them with. Probably 3 or 4 layers. I'm using poly for that and will then tab them down with epoxy. All in will probably be less than $200?
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That sounds like a lot of $$$ in Coosa! I'm using fence posts as well. I took a 5" post and ripped it in half on the table saw to get the 2 1/2" height I wanted. The 5" posts were a little thicker than the 4" ones already. Then Marine surplus has a bunch of rolls of 1700 in 6, 8 and 10 inch for $20-30 a piece that I'm using to wrap them with. Probably 3 or 4 layers. I'm using poly for that and will then tab them down with epoxy. All in will probably be less than $200?
I was thinking about the Coosa for raising the floor as it will also give me someplace strong to screw into for my console/tower. But now Im thinking of just glassing my console in.....my T-top attaches to my so glassing in alone may not be a good idea? Im at that stage where Im starting to think about details and getting stuck.
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Maybe you could just add the coosa where things will be screwed down and use a more cost effective way for the rest?
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:you_rock: Common sense..you have it!
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Maybe a idea for you? I used PVC trim boards from Menards to raise the floor 1 inch. They are relatively light too! Where you see the perpendicular extensions I used SS T-nuts and 1/4-20 SS bolts counter sunk into the floor to fasten. So no disturbing the stringers with fasteners. They are bisquet jointed together just for kicks. Also used this on the perimeter of the floor (where I left a 2 inch flange) with PVC smaller cut cleats. My stringers were in great shape. Spent half day grinding the existing cement off the top. Did the PVC flame treatment and sanded with 30 grit to give the "Gorrilla" waterproof construction adhesive something to grab on too. Cheers T
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/044.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17694&title=044&cat=500)
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Maybe a idea for you? I used PVC trim boards from Menards to raise the floor 1 inch. They are relatively light too! Where you see the perpendicular extensions I used SS T-nuts and 1/4-20 SS bolts counter sunk into the floor to fasten. So no disturbing the stringers with fasteners. They are bisquet jointed together just for kicks. Also used this on the perimeter of the floor (where I left a 2 inch flange) with PVC smaller cut cleats. My stringers were in great shape. Spent half day grinding the existing cement off the top. Did the PVC flame treatment and sanded with 30 grit to give the "Gorrilla" waterproof construction adhesive something to grab on too. Cheers T
Thank you for the advice, thats very creative.
So now I am seriously leaning towards taking out my stringers and starting fresh. I was planning on taking out center stringer and fitting a tank between, but Im having a hard time finding a poly tank that will fit, and I'd rather not go with aluminum.
I am planning on raising the floor 2-3 inches.
I just went through every FB rebuild and only found 4 who kept their stringers.
In addition, these stringers are 47 years old, and even though they see like they are in good shape, who knows how long that will last?
This is the part of a project I loath, the frozen analysis paralysis. I need to make a decision and just go with it.
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Have you checked out Rick’s 170 rebuild. He did something innovative by notching his stringers to fit a wider tank. It also gave him solid attachment points to block the tank in place. It’s a worthwhile option to consider. It seems a shame to rip out good stringers if you don’t need to.
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Have you checked out Rick’s 170 rebuild. He did something innovative by notching his stringers to fit a wider tank. It also gave him solid attachment points to block the tank in place. It’s a worthwhile option to consider. It seems a shame to rip out good stringers if you don’t need to.
That could totally work. Thank you. I also need to figure out how big a tank I want. Im thinking around 50g. Ive never had a boat this size so I am not sure what is the usual amount.
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Look at some of the other FB rebuilds and see what size tank they used and how they build the cradle to hold them. Moeller is a good place to find tanks.
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What do you plan for power? Your flatty should be more fuel efficient than my CCP. I went with 58 gallons assuming that I’ll get 4-5 MPG at most efficient cruise with a 150-200.
Assuming 4 MPG and 90% useable (52 gal) , that should gives me a range of 208 miles. Keeping 1/3 in reserve, that’s still 140 miles range, or more than enough for 30 miles out, 30 miles back and a full day of trolling.
Make your plans based on your intended use.
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What do you plan for power? Your flatty should be more fuel efficient than my CCP. I went with 58 gallons assuming that I’ll get 4-5 MPG at most efficient cruise with a 150-200.
Assuming 4 MPG and 90% useable (52 gal) , that should gives me a range of 208 miles. Keeping 1/3 in reserve, that’s still 140 miles range, or more than enough for 30 miles out, 30 miles back and a full day of trolling.
Make your plans based on your intended use.
Right now my ideal motor would be a newer 175 Suzuki.
Where I do most of my fishing, off Boynton, we are lucky enough that we only have to go about 1.5 miles off shore and we are already in 200ft of water, I spend most of my type drifting live baits between 200 and 120ft, so I dont do a lot of trolling usually. On nice days I may shoot out into the gulf, maybe 15-20 mile for the weed-lines. If the weather is really nice, I would hop across to West End of Bahamas and go diving, which is 80 miles (Id go in a group with other boats). But that happening would be rare if any. I would probably trailer to keys once in a while also.
So, 52 gallon tank would be plenty for my needs. I found a 52g Moeller poly tank that has the perfect dimensions to fit between my stringers! One of the challenges on a FB is not much space height wise for a tank, but this one is 13"H. I found a place in Ft Laud that has the best price on them, $410 and I'll pick it up.
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I’ve fished out of Boynton more than a few times. The inlet can be a bear, but it’s nice being so close to the stream. I think you’ll be happy with 52 gal. I hope your tooth fillings are in good shape for making the Bahamas run in a flatback, though.
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The Boynton inlet is listed as one of the most dangerous on east coast. Ever winter someone's boat winds up on the beach. I only go out when its flat/light chop and always wait for other boats to go through before I proceed. Ive never ridden in a flatback, so I guess I shall see how rough a ride it is. I grew up going out on my neighbors Hews Bonefisher, and that boat was rough out in the gulf.
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Center stringer OUT!
New Poly 52G tank ACQUIRED!
Fits like a GLOVE!
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20180927_111542.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17716&title=20180927-111542&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20180927_111549.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17717&title=20180927-111549&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20180927_111602.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17719&title=20180927-111602&cat=500)
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Looking good. Are you planning to mount it that way or turn it around? If you flip it, you may be able to run your fill tube through the existing stringer cutout.
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That's a good idea, I thought of that for a minute, but the tank will be moving forward a few inches, and that notch will not be next to the fill spout. I'd also like to have the inspection plate under the center console. I also kinda like the gas cap on the left side so when I pull into a gas pump, the drivers side is up against the pump and it's easier for me to see how Im parking.
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Ok, cool. Sounds like you've considered everything. :thumleft:
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I would flip it around. You'll want your fuel pickup at the rear end, otherwise when you throttle up and the fuel goes aft, you may not get any at the pickup tube. The bow will be rising as well.
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I would flip it around. You'll want your fuel pickup at the rear end, otherwise when you throttle up and the fuel goes aft, you may not get any at the pickup tube. The bow will be rising as well.
This is why I love these forums. Now, I gotta see if my live well will be on top of where an access hatch will go.
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Okay, so I scooped all the old foam out of all the stringers. I pressure wash the insides of the stringers as well, and we'll be waiting a week or so for them to dry out. One of my concerns is using the old stringers and having them delaminate eventually, as it seems to be something that happens with these old flat backs. So what I would like to do is tab in the insides of the stringers to the hull. My plan would include making fillets out of peanut butter, and then laying strips of glass, inside all the corners. Question is what type of glass should I use? Bi axle of some kind? My other question is how would you guys repair that one Stringer on the port front side in the last picture? I don't think it's a complicated fix just wanted to get some ideas.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20181003_074726.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17742&title=20181003-074726&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20181003_074729.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17743&title=20181003-074729&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20181003_074755.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17744&title=20181003-074755&cat=500)
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I've been using 1700 for my tabbing but that is partly because I got a good deal on a few 6 and 8 inch rolls of it. I'm no expert but it seems to be working well for me. As for that crack, does it go all the way through the roving or is it just the outside layers? If it's just the outside, I would just grind back all the cracked stuff and lay in 3 or 4 layers to build it back up. When I poured the foam back into mine it really helped to stiffen them up more.
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Okay, I need to get something that will be pretty flexible, because some of the angles I will need to tab inside the stringers are pretty tight.
And the crack of that transom goes all the way through the wall of the transom. There is that big piece of missing glass. It's very thin there too. I guess I can put something behind it, like wood, with some peel-ply, and start building it up from the outside.
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Maybe you could cut a thin piece of foam to size, like 1/4" divinycell or something, and then coat it real good in resin and clamp it in place. Then when it's cured you can just use it as a form and glass over it and not have to worry about getting it back out? Might work, might not? Just kinda thinking out loud.
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That's a great idea! All I have is some left over Coosa, which is kinda pricy. I need to get some glass tape so maybe I can see if my supplier has foam sheets
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You could go with less weight on the insides of the stringers - like maybe 12oz cloth? It's lighter, thinner and more pliable for those pesky corners. I agree on the rolls of 1708 tape very handy for tabbing stuff in.
Look for some "jasper" board - very light weight composite board - comes in handy around the rebuild and pretty cheap.
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Okay great. What about pouring foam in the stringers, is it recommended for 4lb or 2lb? I'm thinking 4lb since its structural.
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I've always heard 4lb and that's what I went with. I used about 9 gallons total.
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Okay cool.
So my newest dilemma goes back to this gas tank I bought. I didnt even think about the orientation of the pick up, and how having it towards the back is best, I planned initially to have it facing forwards. But the fittings will be directly under my live well/leaning post. I will have no way of putting an inspection plate. I called Moeller and asked technical service if I could maybe take the pick up tube and put a longer one on that would go up front. The guy sounded like I was bugging him during lunch, and was like "sure, probably would work." I did some inspecting, and the pick up tube will not pull all the way out without the screen on the end pulling out. It's really hard to describe through writing, I'll take some pics. I hope I can figure this out and I didnt make a $400 mistake.
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My experience with Moeller was like that. I wanted to swap the vent and fuel fittings. They said no problem; it could be done. When I got the tank, I couldn’t swap the fittings. Contacted Moeller, they said, you can’t swap on that tank. Don’t even try or it voids warranty. I returned tank (lucky I purchased from Amazon) and went aluminum.
I fear that you’ll need to make current configuration work, or go custom.
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What is the tube made of? Can it be cut in half and then you splice in more length?
Yes on the 4lb foam.
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Ive been doing a lot of research on this. Moeller used to make a 48" extension pick up tube, but no more. Even if I could find that one, it has the wrong fitting. I can use tubing made out of HDPE polyethylene, which is used to make plastic gas tanks. It's 3/8"ID, and you can actually get it at Home Depot. The tubing is moderately flexible, so my one concern now is will the end of the tubing lay flat on the bottom of the tank? I think I will need to put something on the end to weigh it down, like a brass hose barb. Good times, I love solving these problems!
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20181003_204438.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17763&title=20181003-204438&cat=500)
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Keeps the brain in shape ;-)
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Plowing forward!! Newest video, check it!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6LSXys2PPg&t=6s
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Great video, as always. :great02:
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Nice video. Making progress.
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So Im in analysis paralysis, and frozen on boat right now. I have decided I do not like the center console that came with the boat, and want to get something else before I proceed, as I need to run rigging tubes. The T-Top attached to the center console also. I also need to figure out livewell. This part is so hard for me, as there are so many options and variables. Also, I dont know where to really find stuff. Anyway, just venting, Im sure other people can relate.
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Most of the time when you add a top, you lose walk by space. You have the option of cutting, say 4", out of the width of your existing console. Many have done this. Think about that.
As for the live well, there is a lot of members that have them (I do not) and hopefully will speak up.
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I've never been a fan of the factory console either. They are too wide for my liking which limits walk space on the sides, especially if you add rod holders.
Do you have any surplus places around you? I'm lucky to have a good one close that always seems to have something good laying around.
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Most of the time when you add a top, you lose walk by space. You have the option of cutting, say 4", out of the width of your existing console. Many have done this. Think about that.
As for the live well, there is a lot of members that have them (I do not) and hopefully will speak up.
Yea, I was just looking at console to see if I could cut space out of it, dont that would work. Its a console out of a old Mako supposedly. I'll keep staring at it, maybe something will change.lol
I've never been a fan of the factory console either. They are too wide for my liking which limits walk space on the sides, especially if you add rod holders.
Do you have any surplus places around you? I'm lucky to have a good one close that always seems to have something good laying around.
I do have a place about 1.25 hours from me in Ft Pierce, I may go tomorrow.
Some people put live well on their transom, and Id like to put mine there, as its a great spot, but weight wise I figure moving it forward is better.
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Hopefully you find something good. I've found some great deals, console included, at the one near me.
I'm planning to put my livewell in the transom but it's only about 24 gallons so hopefully it won't cause too much trouble. I'm raising the floor 2 1/2" as well to help.
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Marine Connection Liquidators has some nice consoles. I think they have one, maybe from a pathfinder, that would scale well to a 22-2. As I recall, it’s even available with a T top. I’m a fan of the livewell in the leaning post. It’s a good compromise between a smooth ride for the bait and getting the weight forward.
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Yeah I made it run up to Marine Liquidators, didn't see any surplus consoles that would work. They had some new ones and a T-top and leaning post/live while I liked. But that all came to $3000. I'm going to keep staring at my console and try to figure out how to modify it to make it work for me.
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Check out this console. Not my taste but might work! Its in Grant, Florida about 1 hour north of fort pierce.
https://spacecoast.craigslist.org/bpo/d/brand-new-center-console-with/6734244523.html
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Here’s a tall console with a minimal foot print. It might work for you. http://cmmarineproducts.com/Product/Detail?productId=5cea8f8a-1ff5-460d-a476-b37a392ce11f
I got my leaning post/livewell from them, and saved significantly by picking up directly.
This console from Panga Marine seems to be popular on AS rebuilds too.
http://boatconsolesandbaitwells.com/catalog/guide-model-without-seat/
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Thanks, I saw that one up at Marine Liquidators, and I like the height, but do want some storage. I found a CnM dealer right around the corner from me, so I pulled the trigger and got a console and leaning post/live well combo. They are made to order, so now the wait. But at least I know what I will be installing!
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/fishing_boat-diving-boating-center_console-boats-spearfishing-dive_boat_8f81d49c-5090-45dc-8596-0920) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17915&title=fishing-boat-diving-boating-center-console-boats-spearfishing-dive-boat-8f8&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/fishing_boat-diving-boating-center_console-boats-spearfishing-dive_boat_8f81d49c-5090-45dc-8596-0920) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17915&title=fishing-boat-diving-boating-center-console-boats-spearfishing-dive-boat-8f8&cat=500)
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Look back through some FB rebuild done by dirtwheelsfl and see the one he built
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Yeah, I've seen his work, really great stuff. I don't feel confident with my skills yet to build something so pivotal to the boat looks wise. I'm sure I can make it look good but it'll take me a year... LOL
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His didn't have a seat on the front of the console but he did incorporate a top on it. Maybe you could create just the lower portion and mod that? If you want a seat just add before glassing it.
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The CM stuff is pretty good, and it will definitely save you time.
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Nice to have those checked off the list. I'm still on the hunt for a leaning post.
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What kind are you looking for?
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What kind are you looking for?
I'm pretty open to whatever as long as I can keep a cooler under it. I should be able to find something pretty easily since I don't need a livewell in it.
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Check out the leaning post I had originally on my flatty, if you want it it's yours.
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Thanks! That's very cool of you to offer it but I think I am wanting to go with a new one.
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Quick update, I picked up my center console, it's in back of my van so no pics. I am prepping the stringers to refoam, but before I do, I want to tab in fresh glass on the insides of the stringers. I will fill in the inside corners of the stringers with thickened epoxy, then lay up 1708 on the hull and up about 3-4" of the stringer walls. The stringers are not held on that strongly to the hull, mostly held on with globs of resin. This should stiffen them up really good.
I also cut out the center front stringer, to give me more storage space and make it easier to drain water from one compartment as opposed to 2. I will lay up a few layers of glass and put a couple bulkheads to stiffen the area back up.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20181213_160237.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17946&title=20181213-160237&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20181213_170631.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17947&title=20181213-170631&cat=500)
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Got my leaning post and CC in!! Super excited! My old T-Top ALMOST fits the CC too, its about 2" to big on the bottom legs (Top attached to console at all its points) Not sure if I can get someone to bend them to fit??
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20181229_155655.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17977&title=20181229-155655&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20181229_155647.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17976&title=20181229-155647&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20181229_155707.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17978&title=20181229-155707&cat=500)
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Nice - I'm sure someone could bend that in for you.
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Looks like a nice combo. Where did you end up getting them from?
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Found a place 1 mile away from me that sells them, for cheaper than the factory too. Since it was right there I saved on shipping by picking it up. Cody is the guy I dealt with, nice guy.
https://www.marinefiberglassdirect.com
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Cool. All that running around and it was right under your nose. Glad you got a deal
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Those look killer. I am excited for you.
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So I have been in analysis paralysis for weeks now. I am so torn on whether I should stick with the stringers I have, or start fresh. The more I look into it, the more I am leaning towards ripping everything out and starting fresh. I found a stringer in the front port side that was totally not attached to the hull, it was just floating. There are cracked stringers in the area to. I could glob some thickened epoxy under and glass it down. But as I walk around the hull, i can feel it has some flex. Id like to be able to lay some new glass over the whole hull. But doing this means I am committing myself to a whole lot work, with grinding out the old stringers. But, in the end I will feel confident it was done right. Can anyone suggest why I should try and just use my old stringers??
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I am lucky in that my stringers were in really good shape and I didn't need to make that decision, but if I did they would've had to have been really really bad before I would have considered ripping them all out. There has to be some good glass still in them, right? Plus you already have the perfect template already there. Can you weigh that front stringer back down flat or is the hull twisted or flexed at all? If you can, then I would think it would be easiest to glue it back down with some thickened epoxy and then run a couple of tabs down the full length of them. Then cover it all with another layer or two. Even then you would still end up using a lot less material, not to mention the time you would save in grinding and remeasuring everything. Are you still planning to foam them? That will add a lot of rigidity back to the hull as well.
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Newest Vid in the build!
https://youtu.be/H4FxVps2A_E
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Good to see you back at it.
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For your T-top I would look for some round aluminum stock the same diameter as the flange that is short of the console (so maybe it is 2" or 2.5"?) and cut it to length so it fills the gap. Then drill it to match the holes in what you have and use longer bolts.
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What are your thoughts on having the T Top only attached to the console and not the floor? It was like that on the last boat, so Im guessing it works? But someone commented on my vid saying that it was a bad idea. I plan on using both screws (on outside) and tabbing (on inside) the console down to sole.
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The console needs to be stout and well attached, but rolling the legs into the console saves a lot of space on deck.
I had Birdsall roll my rear legs into the console and tuck my front legs into the floor in front of my console. My coffin box will fit between the front legs.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/E2FF4079-3FE9-452F-B182-CF2E4DEFAADD.jpeg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=18179&title=t-top-legs&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/C1EBAA1A-5A7C-4711-85CC-206E7C5C98FB.jpeg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=18178&title=t-top-legs&cat=500)
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When cruising, the only thing for passengers to hold onto is the top and top's legs. If the top is connected only to the console, the console has to be connected to the sole very securely.
Way back before my 170 rebuild a friend and I were out in the gulf fishing and the weather changed and we headed back in. On the way I hit a wave and my friend and I quickly braced for the wave before the impact by grabbing onto the windshield and when we hit the wave, the console was ripped from the deck and tilted forward a lot ::o: . It had only been screwed into the deck in about 15 places.
Also as you are towing your boat and hit highway speeds there is a tremendous amount of wind pressure on the top, definitely more than you cruising around fishing, so plan for that too.
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Thanks for all the replies about the t-top.I like the idea of wrapping around to the front of the console and onto the floor.
Here's my 11th installment in my rebuild. Check it out, you'll see this website is featured in it!
https://youtu.be/P7Om9S5Dfks
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The boat is looking good. Your fillets are nice and neat. The peel ply is awsome. I wish I had tried it out earlier in my project.
You may want to ad some other fillers to your fillet mix. Silica alone can be a bit brittle. I used a mix of silica, milled fiber and some wood flour in mine. The fiber adds a bit more strength and the wood flour ads a bit of elasticity. There’s no need to worry about the wood in the wood flour. It absorbs the resin and becomes completely plasticized.
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Thanks for watching. I will take your advice and add that to my recipe next time! What "milled fiber" do you recommend? I wonder if USComposites carries those 2 other ingredients.
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They probably carry them. I’ll look at the brand when I get home, but milled fiber is tiny fiberglass fibers. It adds some strength. When appearance is less important chopped fibers will add evenmore strength.
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Enjoyed the video like always. :thumleft:
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I found one of these that I used when mixing fillet material - whips it up real quick and smooth. Cleanup is blasting it with a garden hose and then dunking it in some acetone.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/HDX-1-gal-Helix-Paint-Mixer-HM1-HDX/206509381
Agree that you should use some chopped fibers - US composites should have them and you're close enough to go look to see what they offer. Seems everyone has their own "mix" but it does add strength.
I got a lot of ideas and guidance from Chris (dirtwheelsFL) too. Make sure you keep the shape of the stringers intact. The best way would have been to not cut out the entire tops and leave 3 or 4" bridges of glass across the stringer tops to keep them in shape. Since the tops are gone you have to figure this out, especially before you start pouring the foam. The foam can distort the stringers as it hardens.
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I found one of these that I used when mixing fillet material - whips it up real quick and smooth. Cleanup is blasting it with a garden hose and then dunking it in some acetone.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/HDX-1-gal-Helix-Paint-Mixer-HM1-HDX/206509381
Agree that you should use some chopped fibers - US composites should have them and you're close enough to go look to see what they offer. Seems everyone has their own "mix" but it does add strength.
I got a lot of ideas and guidance from Chris (dirtwheelsFL) too. Make sure you keep the shape of the stringers intact. The best way would have been to not cut out the entire tops and leave 3 or 4" bridges of glass across the stringer tops to keep them in shape. Since the tops are gone you have to figure this out, especially before you start pouring the foam. The foam can distort the stringers as it hardens.
Good idea on that mixer!! mixing stuff into epoxy succckkkksssss.
And didnt think the foam would deform the sides, figured it would just expand out the tops. Maybe bridge some glass strips over the tops to secure the shapes? Better safe than sorry.
So, some guy suggested just using 1700 for glass instead of 1708. Says the matt doesnt really do much other than make it harder to conform to bends and sucks up more resin. Even suggested that places sell us that because they know we will use more resin. What are you all's thoughts? Do you think there is a benefit of having that mat on the 1708?
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Definitely brace the sides of the stringers. I ran a 2x4 down the sides of mine and it still bowed out a bit in one part where it wasn't braced well. As for the glass, I used 1700 and it worked well but it was mostly because I had a roll of 6" and 8" that I found cheap. I would use it again over 1708 though. I've always heard that the mat is mainly to help build bulk faster and doesn't provide as much strength.
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So, some guy suggested just using 1700 for glass instead of 1708. Says the matt doesnt really do much other than make it harder to conform to bends and sucks up more resin. Even suggested that places sell us that because they know we will use more resin. What are you all's thoughts? Do you think there is a benefit of having that mat on the 1708?
There are benefits to 1708. The 1708 builds up thickness faster than 1700, and thickness means a stiffer laminate. Mat in the 1708 helps layers bond together better too, because the mat increases surface contact between layers. The increased bond, while not strictly necessary with epoxy gives me comfort as a amateur builder. As for the resin savings, if you’re going for a specific thickness, say 3/16”. 3 layers of 1708 gets you close. Four layers of 1700 is thinner than 3 of 1708. Five layers is just over. Biax Is stronger than roving and CSM originally used in our Aquasports. You probably don’t need to build up the same thickness of glass, but as a non engineer, it gives me comfort in places like the transom, stringers and tabbing.
It’s true, 1708 doesn’t like wrapping around bends, particularly outside bends. I have no real problem getting it to work on inside bends with a reasonable filet to provide a radius. For outside bends I used 1200 biax. It wraps around tighter bends much better and it wets out like a dream.
The bottom line for me is: builders have great results with either pick what works for you.
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It's true that epoxy doesn't melt the binders in the CSM like polyester and vinylester does, so the CSM is a waste when using epoxy. As Michael said, it does offer bulk.
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To build off of what rick said, CSM is good for three things in a laminate; adding bulk, increasing bond between layers, providing a sacrificial layer to make fairing easier
It’s also important to note the CSM in 1708 uses the stitching instead of binder, so it is 100% epoxy compatible.
West systems did some testing with epoxy and CSM. They found that the bond was just fine, at least with their product. I’ve done some testing and I find two downsides to CSM and epoxy; stays a kind of milky white color, and since the styrene binder isn’t dissolved, it doesn’t conform to corners as well as with poly or vinylester.
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Okay cool, thanks as always for all the input/response. You guys are awesome. I may get some 1700 for doing the stringers/under floor and save my 1708 for above deck, that way I can use the mat side for places I want to fair out later on.
Oh, I just found a product that claims its "higher strength, better quality, and more consistent" than Coosa, and is cheeper, it's called Thermo-lite Board by Space age Panels. Merret Supply down near me carries it. The pics look just like Coosa, I think it's basically same construction.
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I've seen a few different brands that all seem similar. Kay-Cel is another one that the shop up by me sells but they are proud of it $$. Are you thinking about using that for the sole?
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Yes, I am contemplating it. I like the way it can be shaped like wood. The honey comb products seems to add another level of difficulty dealing with the sides?
Also I am considering a different layout for the front deck, to have a 2 benches and a small front deck at the bow, with a walk through. Under that walk through will be storage, and under the benches will be storage. Im sure there is a name for this type of arrangement, many boats have it that way.
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How's your project coming along marcel?
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Ive been stuck in holding pattern. Financials, work, loss of motivation, etc...also cant decide on the direction of how I want to set it up inder the deck. Part of me wants to do away with the windows, another part wants to keep them. I think I want to build a big fish box up front, but figuring out the drainage has me kinda stumped. Do I go with a macerator? Anyway, sorry for no updates, but nothing to update lately.
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Don’t lose your motivation and just go for it!
Me personally I would get rid of the windows and add your fish box idea. What are your concerns about drainage?
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Don't give up Marcel! It's worth it in the end
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Don’t lose your motivation and just go for it!
Me personally I would get rid of the windows and add your fish box idea. What are your concerns about drainage?
Thanks!
Having everything drain into the bilge, especially bloody fish water, seems like trouble. I imagine that the flatback hull will need a lot of water to fill up before it trips a bilge switch. Thats why I am thinking a fisj box that doesnt drain into the bildge but drains into a macerator pumping it overboard
Tampa Bay Mike, do you have any hatches drain into bilge?
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If the fish box is raised you could have it come out of the side toward the front of the boat.
Another solution is to run the drain hose out of the back of the transom below the waterline. Since it’s so far forward you shouldn’t have any issues with water back filling. That’s how one of my livewells is on my ranger and it works great as a fish box.
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Tampa Bay Mike, do you have any hatches drain into bilge?
Just the anchor locker up front but I have a plug for it if needed. The rest have gutters
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I see planning as the most important step to the end goal. I am finding I personally am kinda stuck in planning stage myself (however no time at the moment to get outside and work at it).
I personally like fish box drain out the transom (my 81’ is setup this way) so you can either drain while out fishing or also while cleaning up the boat without the risk of staining the hullsides years down the road. The original design (at least how my 70’ is set up) was to run the drain through the hullside.