Fun with a float switch...

[Rhojo]

so if we shouldn't use a float switch (i've noticed mine is acting up) what do we use?

Rule 51S auto bilge pump. This model is rated at 1500 gph.
http://www.google.com/search?q=rule+51s ... =firefox-a

Thanks CB!

[seabob4]

Guys, I'm not saying don't use a float switch, quite the contrary, you MUST!  Even boats moored on a trailer, drains clog up with God knows whatever, and now the bilge starts filling up with water with no way to turn on the pump if you're not on board...

My point is that a lot of people like to use these Rule-Mate pumps with the built-in float, a sort of all in one.  What I see in pumps and floats is that the pumps last a HELL of a long time, it's the switches that crap out more frequently.  If you have an all-in-one, and the switch goes, then you have to buy the whole assembly at, depending on the model, $125 plus.  But if you have the separate float, your dropping $30 max.  

What I was really trying to show was a couple things.  One, was how a switch with no load placed on it could appear to be functioning fine when a meter was put on it to check voltage.  The other was how to determine why this switch wasn't working, and what was the cause.  Granted, a reading of 15 Ohms resistance doesn't seem like much, but my experience shows me that if I get any reading over, say, 5 Ohms, that switch is history...

[Rhojo]

Good info here, especially for a newb like me.

I never realized there was an all-in-one option for bilge pumps. Both my boats have a pump and a float switch. I noticed recently on the AS that when I lifted the float switch with my finger the pump didn't respond but yet while fishing with Gran in the inlet we were taking some water in through the self bailing holes (put in the plugs to stop that) and we were approached by a guy in another boat who asked "Why is your bilge running?". The pump was working to pump out the water somehow. The switch on the dash was off at the time and I know that the dash switch is working because you can hear the pump turn on when you activate the switch. I'm going to take a closer look at my setup this weekend.

Thanks fellas!  :monkey:

[John Jones]

Mr. Green at work inside that switch..., voltage, but no current flow.

Yep.  Mr. Green will get you on most any wiring on a boat, especially battery cables.
After getting tired of changing float switches I started sawing them open to see what the trouble was.  I traced it down to where the wires enter.  It's NOT sealed.  Just the stupid rubber grommet letting water into the switch.  I started daubing 5200 where the wires enter and letting it set up before installing the switch.  I think the ones I have now are over 3 years old with no issues.

SB, you are right on about the all-in-one units.  You have to toss a good pump because of a bad switch.  Nice video by the way.

Unless I need it right away I buy all my stuff like that from River Marine Supply that someone linked above.  Where I lived in FL the local Worst Marine manager would not match internet prices, not even West Marine internet prices.  Driving to Sarasota killed the savings on smaller items.

[Capt. Bob]

Well what say ye about the computer switched model as opposed to the mechanical switched type. I really don't know how long that type pump has been on the market.
Logic would dictate you would not want a "computer" in a bilge but if properly sealed, who knows (and that's the question).

Battery drain aside, maybe the constant start and stop adds to its longevity.?

[seabob4]

Well what say ye about the computer switched model as opposed to the mechanical switched type. I really don't know how long that type pump has been on the market.
Logic would dictate you would not want a "computer" in a bilge but if properly sealed, who knows (and that's the question).

Battery drain aside, maybe the constant start and stop adds to its longevity.?

CB, we know the CG uses the "Water Witch", which is of the computer genre you refer to.  So one might say, well, if the Coast Guard uses it, why shouldn't I?  But we all know how guberment contracts work...

I think the real key, regardless of what type of float or pump one cares to use, is to have quality wire, as water-proof terminations as one can get, and rigorous maintenance of the bilge area.  The last is the most important, yet the task no one wants to do... :cry:

[Capt. Bob]

Agreed.
I ask because that is the model that came with my WAC. Still seems to work but I'm not sure of the true battery drain. I plan a little experiment while the WAC is docked (in my back yard) and see just how long it takes to drain down the newer battery to a voltage that would :
1. fail to crank the motor
2. pretty much drain the battery

What I'm trying to reveal is what can I expect when I overnight and about how long can the boat stay in the water (moored) safely.

[seabob4]

CB,
That will be an interesting experiment.  If you have no significant rainfall during the test, be sure to seriously hose down the deck in the area of the bilge hatch to try and imitate a good, heavy shower...in other words, get the beetch to turn on purposely, see how it reacts, how long it takes to shut the pump off after the bilge has been evacuated...you know what I mean...

[MarshMarlowe196]

Scott, you what's funny, I guess?  I've never watched ShipShape...

You're not missing anything but advertisements.  Your video was much more informative than any of the blatant sales pitches I've ever seen on Ship-Shape.  Hell, Telemundo is a better show IMO.  

Guys, I'm not saying don't use a float switch, quite the contrary, you MUST!  Even boats moored on a trailer, drains clog up with God knows whatever, and now the bilge starts filling up with water with no way to turn on the pump if you're not on board...

My point is that a lot of people like to use these Rule-Mate pumps with the built-in float, a sort of all in one.  What I see in pumps and floats is that the pumps last a HELL of a long time, it's the switches that crap out more frequently.  

Mr. Green at work inside that switch..., voltage, but no current flow.

Yep.  Mr. Green will get you on most any wiring on a boat, especially battery cables.
After getting tired of changing float switches I started sawing them open to see what the trouble was.  I traced it down to where the wires enter.  It's NOT sealed.  Just the stupid rubber grommet letting water into the switch.  I started daubing 5200 where the wires enter and letting it set up before installing the switch.  I think the ones I have now are over 3 years old with no issues.

SB, you are right on about the all-in-one units.  You have to toss a good pump because of a bad switch.  Nice video by the way.

Interesting topic guys.  In my personal experience with pumps, it seems no matter what brand of pump I have or how well I take care of them, they crap out every other season at the most.  My wiring is sealed and secured so as the wiring is not sitting in the bottom of the bilge, everytime I use the boat I rinse the bilge out with plenty of fresh water, and I spray the pumps and switches down with WD-40 (Really I spray everything electronic or has moving metal parts down on my boat with WD-40 after every use), and still my pumps go out.

I was complaining about this to my Dad, and he basically said that he can't understand why these pumps don't last longer.  During a slow boatshow in a slow economy, him and some of the last men standing in OEM decided they'd see just how long a pump would run continuously.  31 hours was the longest any of them would pump, and the brand that won was Rule.  

I tend to agree with John- seems these pumps and switches just aren't sealed well, and they operate in the worst environment for electronics.

[John Jones]

Yup.  The failed pumps I have replaced have all received the hacksaw treatment.  It's corroded bearing causing them to seize.  The ones that did have burned motor wires were seized as well and I assume that is what caused the motor to burn up.

[RickK]

Spent the weekend working on the 230 getting it ready to camp this weekend.
Seems the two electronic float switches gave up the ghost. Worked a year ago and now....   I pulled the forward pump out and trimmed the leads back a bit, attached to 12V and it worked.  There is a a Black, Brown and Brown/Red stripe bundle of wires with an electrical tape wrap every foot or so.
Maybe I'm not testing the the switch the right way - it might need voltage across it - the device is Johnson Ultima switch but I tested it on the bench touching where they say, connected to an ohm meter and nothing - switch doesn't activate.
So I ordered another pair of .... electronic switches - water witch brand.  Just don't trust the mercury type I guess.