Classic AquaSport

Aquasport Mechanicals - things that need a wrench, screwdriver or multimeter => Fuel tanks and anything about fuel systems => Topic started by: Brendanpd28 on February 27, 2017, 05:04:51 PM

Title: Brendans 170 fuel tank install
Post by: Brendanpd28 on February 27, 2017, 05:04:51 PM
Hey all,

     Im starting this topic as a fresh thread for my tank install which i'll be starting soon. It is a 27 gallon aluminium tank built my alloy metal works.  I plan on using the Pascoe method using pvc strips and 5200 to hold it in place (still a little suspicious about that being the only way its secured). I will using the lowrance fluid level sensor to connect my Moeller sending unit into NMEA 2000 and monitor fuel through my Simrad Go5. The only thing I haven't completely decided on is the best method of grounding the tank itself.  I was thinking of running a 14AWG wire from the tank fill to the tank grounding tab, then from the grounding tab to my negative bus.  Will this suffice?  Pics to come soon!!

Thanks
Title: Re: Brendans 170 fuel tank install
Post by: alandry100 on February 28, 2017, 09:22:59 AM
I am doing the same thing right now - look forward to hearing about the grounding protocol.
A
Title: Re: Brendans 170 fuel tank install
Post by: Capt. Bob on February 28, 2017, 10:47:34 AM
The only thing I haven't completely decided on is the best method of grounding the tank itself.  I was thinking of running a 14AWG wire from the tank fill to the tank grounding tab, then from the grounding tab to my negative bus.  Will this suffice?

Yes, this is pretty much the standard application although some (myself included) connect directly to the negative post on the battery. The goal is to eliminate the chance of a spark cause by a difference in electrical potential between the filler neck, the tank and really any other metal part that could create this difference thus resulting in a BOOM :oops2:. Bonding also helps reduce the galvanic corrosion that can occur in parts like a metallic sea cock so if you have that device on a raw water pickup, you should add it to your bonding loop.

Good luck. :thumright:
Title: Re: Brendans 170 fuel tank install
Post by: Brendanpd28 on February 28, 2017, 12:56:48 PM
Thank you Bob. My apologies but I lost you on the raw water pickup part lol. 
Title: Re: Brendans 170 fuel tank install
Post by: Brendanpd28 on February 28, 2017, 04:16:47 PM
 Just to clarify before I get going on the install. Will PVC trim such as Azek or Veranda as the quarter inch strips suffice or is there another recommended material?  And has anybody else out there used the Pascoe method as the only means of fastening?  I have seen the Pacoe method used quite a bit throughout this forum, but it always seems like additional methods of fastening added as well.  Just want to be sure before I do this install and close up my coffin again. Thank you all!
Title: Re: Brendans 170 fuel tank install
Post by: mshugg on February 28, 2017, 05:28:00 PM
I used PVC board from a home store and ripped it to size.  It is a dense foam, so it's not solid, but I think it will be perfect.  After all the original instal used neoprene strips and aluminum bands with a single screw.

I know Pascoe says that the weight of the tank is enough if the 5200 let's go, but I wanted to fully trap the tank.  It's easy to fit chocks or boards that will provide a mechanical connection and still not trap water next to the tank. 
Title: Re: Brendans 170 fuel tank install
Post by: Brendanpd28 on March 01, 2017, 03:51:11 PM
Very crude drawing but thought it might help other 170 owners visualize the install
And plan ahead. Hopefully I didn't miss anything. Feel free to correct lol.
Title: Re: Brendans 170 fuel tank install
Post by: mshugg on March 01, 2017, 04:35:12 PM
Your sketch looks good to me.  If possible, try to loop in your vent fitting so the hose comes down to vent from above and forward.  This will reduce chance of water making its way into your vent line.
Title: Re: Brendans 170 fuel tank install
Post by: Brendanpd28 on March 01, 2017, 04:43:20 PM
Your sketch looks good to me.  If possible, try to loop in your vent fitting so the hose comes down to vent from above and forward.  This will reduce chance of water making its way into your vent line.

That's a great idea I never would of thought of. Thanks mshugg!
Title: Re: Brendans 170 fuel tank install
Post by: wingtime on March 01, 2017, 05:10:29 PM
I did a modified Pascoe method in my XF200.  I bonded starboard strips onto the bottom of my tank.  But I did NOT bond them to the bottom of the tank coffin.  I don't believe adhesive alone is enough to hold a tank in place in rough seas.  I strapped the tank down using aluminum straps that I insulated from the tank with thick clear vinyl.  This is fine since unlike certain rubbers, the vinyl is non reactive with the aluminum.  You can go crazy trying to do the perfect install that will last a life time.  But the reality is do you really need a boat that will last 60 years?  The original tank had lasted over 25 years and it was not leaking when I replaced it.  Heck I sold the boat in a year or two anyways.
Title: Re: Brendans 170 fuel tank install
Post by: Brendanpd28 on March 01, 2017, 06:20:50 PM
Thanks wingtime. I am going to stick with the Pascoe method and add some modified crush blocks and 5200 them in place to avoid any movement with the tank. And I completely agree with ur mindset about the install.
Title: Re: Brendans 170 fuel tank install
Post by: Brendanpd28 on March 02, 2017, 05:54:09 PM
Started on the pvc strips today.  Marked and taped off where they were going.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/812/2017-03-02_14-17-09_347.jpeg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=15470&title=2017-03-02-14-17-09-347&cat=812)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/812/2017-03-02_14-22-56_278.jpeg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=15471&title=2017-03-02-14-22-56-278&cat=812)
Scuffed up the aluminum with some help with adhesion
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/812/2017-03-02_14-28-07_459.jpeg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=15472&title=2017-03-02-14-28-07-459&cat=812)
Completely covered the strips with 5200 and laid them on.  Ended up using batteries and cinder blocks to weight them down.  Clamps were not helping much. Once it cures I will come back and add a smooth bead on all sides of the strips.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/812/2017-03-02_15-12-19_305.jpeg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=15474&title=2017-03-02-15-12-19-305&cat=812)
Title: Re: Brendans 170 fuel tank install
Post by: mshugg on March 03, 2017, 04:26:32 AM
You're going to trim the pvc strips?  Right?  Pascoe recommends trimming them 1/8" short of the edge.  I think I cut mine closer to 1/4 shy.  You don't want anything that will hold water next to the tank or interfere with drainage.
Title: Re: Brendans 170 fuel tank install
Post by: Brendanpd28 on March 03, 2017, 10:40:40 AM
Mshugg,

       That picture is just showing the 5200 spread on the strips. They were not secured in place at that time.  They are now in place and are 1/4" short of the edges. 
Title: Re: Brendans 170 fuel tank install
Post by: Brendanpd28 on March 04, 2017, 10:08:15 PM
Heres as pic of the strips glued in place. It was 60 degrees in my shop the other day when I installed them but tonight its dropping to sub zero temps with the wind chill so I had to bring the tank inside so the 5200 will cure.  Its been 2 days and the 5200 is still wet.  New England!!!! :thumleft:

(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/812/2017-03-04_21-04-50_167.jpeg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=15537&title=2017-03-04-21-04-50-167&cat=812)

Title: Re: Brendans 170 fuel tank install
Post by: Brendanpd28 on April 11, 2017, 02:44:09 PM
Hey guys n gals.  So I pulled my cooler seat and console to get to the coffin lid.  I only tilted up my console but im thinking about completely removing it for better access.  I re cored my coffin lid last year and set it and sealed it with 3m 4000 uv.  I am having SERIOUS difficulties getting it back up.  Any advice here?

Thanks!
Title: Re: Brendans 170 fuel tank install
Post by: wingtime on April 11, 2017, 04:17:45 PM
did you just run a bead wround it after you set the cover in place? Or did you put down a bead and set the cover into the caulk?
Title: Re: Brendans 170 fuel tank install
Post by: Brendanpd28 on April 11, 2017, 07:20:50 PM
Hey wingtime,

     I did both but I managed to get it off today.  It was down there good.  Knife, flat bar, and hammer did the trick and I managed to do it with out damaging anything.  EXCEPT when I removed the console and seat they pulled up a bunch of my kiwi-grip and im not super happy about that.  :41: At least its easy to reapply.  I wish now I had used a different non skid and I will call that a learning experience.  I measured for my fill and vent hoses and now need to order everything.  More updates to come. Thanks.

(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/812/2017-04-11_18-14-28_859_1_.jpeg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=15690&title=2017-04-11-18-14-28-859-1&cat=812)
Title: Re: Brendans 170 fuel tank install
Post by: Brendanpd28 on April 17, 2017, 09:58:16 PM
Got the tank set in place on Saturday. Fishing the hoses was probably the hardest part but got it done. Will probably add a few crush blocks and 5200 them in place but I am concerned that could be an area that holds moisture against the tank. Last thing to figure out is where to run the lines up out of the coffin (fuel line, ground wire, and sender wires). I was thinking of installing a pvc 90 elbow or something so the lines can come out and not let moistture in. Any thought here? Thanks.

(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/812/2017-04-15_15-36-06_793.jpeg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=15711&title=2017-04-15-15-36-06-793&cat=812)

(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/812/2017-04-15_15-40-52_473.jpeg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=15713&title=2017-04-15-15-40-52-473&cat=812)

(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/812/2017-04-15_15-40-54_141.jpeg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=15714&title=2017-04-15-15-40-54-141&cat=812)
Title: Re: Brendans 170 fuel tank install
Post by: Capt. Bob on April 18, 2017, 08:29:07 AM
You could just seal the holes but those aren't where the bulk of the moisture will come from anyway. The aluminum condenser you have there will be the main source of moisture. Your goal is to keep additional water out say from entering through the hatch cover and deck plates and remaining in the coffin. "Sweating" on the tank surface is inevitable and as long as you can have air circulate in and out, it will evaporate and you'll be fine. 

Good luck. :thumright:

 
Title: Re: Brendans 170 fuel tank install
Post by: Brendanpd28 on April 18, 2017, 10:13:51 AM
Ya I understand Bob.  I feel like having an elbow to run the wiring and fuel feed might actually be beneficial.  It will allow outside air to enter the coffin and dry out condensation, but will not allow actual water to accumulate.  Thanks for the help.
Title: Re: Brendans 170 fuel tank install
Post by: Brendanpd28 on April 24, 2017, 02:00:07 PM
Hey all,

   So after work today I will be installing the Navico fuel flow sensor and connecting the fuel hose to the pickup tube.  At this point I will be ready to reinstall the coffin lid. I needed to get an aluminum hose barb (3/8" x 1/4" NPT) to thread into the pickup elbow supplied with the tank from Alloy Metal Works.  The only one they had at my local shop was an anti siphon valve version.  Is this really necessary for an outboard application?  I am worried about running into flow/vacuum issues and am now thinking of installing just a normal barb. I have access to my sending unit and grounding tab through my pie plate but NOT the pickup. So once its installed I will have to remove my cover to access it again. Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Brendans 170 fuel tank install
Post by: Capt. Bob on April 24, 2017, 05:22:08 PM
The only one they had at my local shop was an anti siphon valve version.  Is this really necessary for an outboard application?

Here's the rule:
§183.568   Anti-siphon protection.

Each fuel line from the fuel tank to the fuel inlet connection on the carburetor must:

(a) Be above the level of the tank top; or

(b) Have an anti-siphon device or an electrically operated fuel stop valve:

(1) At the tank withdrawal fitting; or

(2) Installed so the line from the fuel tank is above the top of the tank; or

(c) Provided that the fuel tank top is below the level of the carburetor inlet, be metallic fuel lines meeting the construction requirements of §183.538 or “USCG Type A1” hose, with one or two manual shutoff valves installed as follows:

(1) Directly at the fuel tank connection arranged to be readily accessible for operation from outside of the compartment, and

(2) If the length of fuel line from the tank outlet to the engine inlet is greater than 12 feet, a manual shutoff valve shall be installed at the fuel inlet connection to the engine.

[CGD 74-209, 42 FR 5950, Jan. 31, 1977, as amended by CGD 81-092, 48 FR 55737, Dec. 15, 1983; CGD 85-098, 52 FR 19729, May 27, 1987]

Here's the disclaimer:
Title 33 NAVIGATION AND NAVIGABLE WATERS
PART 183 BOATS AND ASSOCIATED EQUIPMENT

Subpart J—Fuel Systems

Source: CGD 74-209, 42 FR 5950, Jan. 31, 1977, unless otherwise noted.
General
§183.501   Applicability.

(a) This subpart applies to all boats that have gasoline engines, except outboard engines, for electrical generation, mechanical power, or propulsion.

(b) [Reserved]

[CGD 74-209, 42 FR 5950, Jan. 31, 1977, as amended by CGD 81-092, 48 FR 55736, Dec. 15, 1983; USCG-1999-5832, 64 FR 34716, June 29, 1999]

I disabled both of mine when I installed a new tank.

Good luck. :thumright:
Title: Re: Brendans 170 fuel tank install
Post by: Brendanpd28 on April 24, 2017, 07:01:21 PM
All of the info I was looking for as usual. Thank you Bob!
Title: Re: Brendans 170 fuel tank install
Post by: Brendanpd28 on May 17, 2017, 07:47:31 PM
Tanks installed and covers on.  Ended up using some PVC to make a candy cane to get my fluid level sensor cable, fuel line, and take ground wire into the console.  Also decided to make some PVC risers for the cooler seat and the console. Buddies coming over tomorrow to help get the console back in and help sand the bottom for paint. Gunna be 90 degrees out so should be fun lol. Got the boat lifted up off the trailer a little with jack stands. Decided not to go through the process of pulling the trailer out completely. Will be a little tricky but we'll pull it off!
Title: Re: Brendans 170 fuel tank install
Post by: Capt. Bob on May 17, 2017, 10:58:02 PM
 :great02:
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