1974 170 CC- refurbishing project

[Redfish Ron]

Well, I got my little jewel home and have to say she is a "project" that I am sort of dreading and excited about at the same time.  I haven't done this in nearly thirty years and a lot has changed over those decades. My last project boat was a 24 foot Stamas Clearwater- that was a real hard job- replaced just about everything inside the hull- wiring, floors, inboard/outboard, new fuel tank, hoses, controls, electronics...but when it was finished it was beautiful and worked great- kept that boat ten years and sold it for twice what I paid for it- I am hoping for equally successful results from the 170...floors are a have to replacement- and i won't know anything about the stringers until the floor is cut out- I am missing the top center hatch cover to the forward center well in the casting deck so I will either have to build that or find one for sale some where. The railing is old and the fittings are corroded- thinking about taking it off completely and not have a rail, but I haven't got that all reasoned out yet-been reading and researching all the threads about rebuilds of 170 and 175's- Rick's looked awesome and an awful lot of work- hopefully I won't have as extensive a project as he had- My transom is perfect- so I won't have any issues with that. Hopefully all I will have is a new floor job and that will get me to the "promised land."  A 1974 boat probably needs a new fuel tank- is there someplace that has them pre-built that you can order from or is it "find your own" fabricator to weld up a 27 gallon aluminum tank in your local area?  I have looked at the suppliers here on the forum and the necessary supplies for refurbishing the floor, but I don't know how much materials (and exactly which types of cloth), epoxy, hardeners, putty etc. that I need for a floor restoration of a 17 CC.  Is there a listing of materials anywhere or do I just blunder along and learn as I go?  I think I probably will need two full sheets of 1/2 inch marine plywood for the floor base and a gallon of epoxy and a half gallon of hardener- I am an inside machinist, so I am mechanically inclined; just getting old. When I did my Stamas it was a bigger boat and I used two layers of biaxial glass cloth on top and just epoxy on the bottom of the 3/4 inch marine plywood for its floors. When the floor was complete, I rolled on a non-skid paint that looked pretty darn good and was tough as nails. Question- Do I really need two layers of glass cloth on top of the 1/2 inch marine plywood for my 170 or is this a good idea? What am I missing that I should ask? Ignorance is bliss-

[gman 82 aquasport]

Welcome aboard To get you a few short answers to some of your ? Fuel tank, once your floor is out and you know what shape the stringers are in, you can go about getting a new tank to fit between the stringers, search online(ebay, greatlakesskipper) places like that who have a ton of off size poly tanks.I know great lakes skipper has a couple hundred listed on their site..you can have one fabbed up,just need to decide alum. or poly..As far as the floor goes 1/2 might be a little thin...most people on here if using wood go 3/4 and put 1 light layer of glass on the bottom(6oz) and then 2 layers on top say 1708 then covered with 6oz, then prime and put the topping of your choice.
You can get your cloth at many places, boatbuilder central, us composites and places like that.Most comes in 52" wide rolls cut to the lenght you need, I think I bought about 10 yards of 6oz when doing mine..still have a little left to make a T-Top cover this winter..  Google is your friend when looking As far as amounts go , I would start out with a 3 gal epoxy kit if you go with epoxy(2 gal resin, 1 hardener) get the hardener to match your weather conditions, slow if it's hot out, med. if it's not to bad, fast if it's cooler, medium will give you more working time.. the cloth will soak up some resin..While the floor is out drill a 1 inch hole in the side of your stringers to check the foam for moisture.. if it's wet cut the tops off the stringers ,remove the wet foam and reglass the tops and pour new foam..
You will probably need some flairing compound for the finish, and you can't really gelcoat over epoxy..
Post up some pics and the guys on here will get you thru your rebuild just like they helped me on mine last year..
And there will always be more questions As far as the # of sheets of plywood for the floor, if using 3 sheets means only having 2 seems in the floor, I would that rather that,then have the extra seem. but thats just me, my 19-6 used 3 sheets, 2 seems, not counting the seem around the edge to the liner..

[Redfish Ron]

I never considered the number of seams needed to be sealed and taped- I will add another sheet of plywood to my list- you used 6 oz cloth and I see a lot of folks use the 1708 biaxial cloth- since I am going with 1/2 inch plywood, would you recommend me using the heavier cloth and laminating both top and bottom with two layers of cloth? I got out my tape measure yesterday and measured the interior flooring I would be replacing- 50 inches wide at the bow casting deck, 62 inches wide at the beam and 12 feet in overall length- I had planned to re-use my center console- doesn't look like anything is wrong or it is not serviceable- so first thing is pulling it out of the boat- did you use a hoist or what techniques did you use to remove the console and then lift out the flooring?  I plan to re-use the wiring/cable trough. How is the flooring anchored? Screws are anchoring the console, but what holds the floor? I saw that some made a gantry system for removing the engine, etc. Since my engine is already removed, what system do you recommend I use? I have a air chisel and an air compressor as well as roto zip, saws-all, 7 1/4 circular saws, etc. so ripping the floor isn't going to be a problem...what I need is to understand what exactly to cut and what not to cut and where. The old carpenter's adage comes into play...measure twice and cut once...

[Capt. Bob]

This is a good thread to read. Photos are linked and you can get a good idea of what you'll run into when you demo. Older Aquas differ at times in composition and stringer design but this is a great place to start. Fletch did this himself and it was a learning process (OJT) and as such a great rebuild thread for those first time Aquasport DIY members.



This is a current rebuild by our Fearless Leader but he had redone the deck before so it may be slightly different than what you may find. It is full of ideas you can use and is very detailed. A good read for any re-builder.

http://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=10101.0

There are many, many others in this forum that you would do well to explore.<!-- s:idea: --><!-- s:idea: -->
Many different methods of cat skinnin' and a huge amount of  "idea" material beyond just glass. Your rebuild, with documentation, will become another notch in this forum's gun for anyone wanting to undertake the task or just provide insight into what one should expect from a good professional re-builder. 

Good luck. <!-- s:thumleft: --><!-- s:thumleft: -->

[RickK]

I think I would start by cutting just through the thickness of the sole leaving a 2" ledge around the perimeter of the inside and in front of the casting deck. Then check your stringers - I think you may have foam in the outboard side of the stringers.  If the stringers look good you can drill an exploratory hole, as mentioned, through the side of each and see if there is any water in the foam. If there is then you have some decisions to make.
If the stringers are good and stuck to the hull well, you could plan on laying a new sole on top of the ledge and build up the top of the stringers to support it.  I did that 14 years ago and it lasted until now.

[Redfish Ron]

Rick- I was so impressed with your rebuild...gave me the confidence to jump in on mine- my boat is three years younger but the exact same model, so what you found under the floor should be pretty close to what the construction of my boat is- doubt if Aquasport did much different three years later-I am holding off tearing into the boat until I get a good idea of the supplies, tools, shelter over the boat, etc. I need to protect my work and not further damage the boat-it is getting later in the year and here in the middle atlantic coast the weather will change pretty quickly. I have been getting my stuff together ever since I brought the boat home last week- I ordered a 5 inch air sander last nite and a new chainfall- my old chainfall is broken...I was impressed with your gantry you built and am thinking of building one pretty much like yours- my transom is fine so that is one less thing to do- I am considering having a commercial metal carport erected (I live outside the city on 2.5 acres of land so I have room for a lot of things) so I can keep my boat under it full time- I measured my boat to make sure the carport would completely cover it- Q- why is it called a 170?  According to my tape it is 17'6" overall length and 82 inches at the beam.

[gman 82 aquasport]

I agree with Rick on the floor cutting, I used a 7 1/2" circlular saw and set the blade depth to just barely cut thru the floor. If you start out on the starboard stearn corner it leaves a nice 2 inch lip to reglass the floor to On removing the console, once everything is out of it, steering,gauges,controls etc, you can actually pic it up by yourself..I just slid mine to the rear and hefted it up over the transom and stuck it in the building until it was time to work on it. If you are set on reusing the trough, just cut it out after making the starboard side cut, leaving some lip on it for reglassing..once all the cuts are made on all four sides the fun starts..Can't remember if the 170 has a tank coffin or not, if it does remove the tank then proceed, if not with everything else out of the boat, pick a spot to star prying up on the floor..it will be held down with some funky factory concrete looking mud that is pretty tough..if you have any decent sized pie plate holes, remove the pie plate and try to get a prybar in there to pry the floor up.If no pie holes, you can cut one or two with a jigsaw just be sure to not hit anything important.I think it took me about 2 hours to pry mine loose, then cut it in managable sizes to remove it The floor from the factory is glassed in place and set on the stringers with the mud from hell. no screws to hold down the floor. The only time I used a lift or anything to remove or replace something was using a engine hoist to pull and set the engine all other work was done the old fashioned way, pure determination to do it Your floor may split apart at the lamination to the wood under it, thats not a bad thing, means more pieces to handle but they will weight less per piece. The air chisel will help with getting the mud/glue to release it's deathgrip on the floor if you can get the bits under the edge and let it eat

[RickK]

Rick- I was so impressed with your rebuild...gave me the confidence to jump in on mine- my boat is three years younger but the exact same model, so what you found under the floor should be pretty close to what the construction of my boat is- doubt if Aquasport did much different three years later-I am holding off tearing into the boat until I get a good idea of the supplies, tools, shelter over the boat, etc. I need to protect my work and not further damage the boat-it is getting later in the year and here in the middle atlantic coast the weather will change pretty quickly. I have been getting my stuff together ever since I brought the boat home last week- I ordered a 5 inch air sander last nite and a new chainfall- my old chainfall is broken...I was impressed with your gantry you built and am thinking of building one pretty much like yours- my transom is fine so that is one less thing to do- I am considering having a commercial metal carport erected (I live outside the city on 2.5 acres of land so I have room for a lot of things) so I can keep my boat under it full time- I measured my boat to make sure the carport would completely cover it- Q- why is it called a 170?  According to my tape it is 17'6" overall length and 82 inches at the beam.

Thanks bud but I'm only about 1/3 done
Is your tank under the sole?  Mine was inside the console - maybe by '74 they had dropped them below deck?  I'm installing a new tank under the sole, so a big change for my boat.
Never taped mine except for the beam - 6'10", which matches yours.  Not a great boat for a tower, eh? Can you say "tippy"?  

[Redfish Ron]

Yes, Rick- my 1974 model has the fuel tank under the floor and the fuel fill is outside on the right side deck just forward of the built in optional rod holders- the fuel vent is right there on the hull, as well- nothing inside the boat- everything is out of the cockpit-

I have been getting all my ducks in a row to begin my project- I needed a protected place to do this so I am building a covered metal out building- It is a pre-fabed large carport type of building- a 20X21- I had to get the land level so it could be installed- 14 tons of crush and run gravel delivered, then spread and level the gravel- whew! lots of manual labor involved-the building will be a dual use building for storing my boat and car out of the weather when I am done with the re-build, so the investment isn't just to re-build my 170-

I ordered three sheets of marine plywood, bought a 1998 Yahama 75 hp 3 cylinder fresh water motor in excellent running condition with 15 pitch, three-blade stainless prop- only drawback is it has side controls instead of a binnacle control- Got all my tools I will need- saws, grinders, roto-zip, half ton chain-fall- wrecking bar, air chisels, air compressor- I don't have any reservations about the work on re-build- all my doubts on my abilities are on the re-install of controls, electrical wiring, install and setup for the motor, and the fuel tank and bilge pump wiring- that is where I had to get help the last time I did this-

[Redfish Ron]

Took another step in my refurbishing project today- I ordered my supplies from U.S. Composites- I took the advice from this forum and am starting with the three gallon resin kit, 10 yards of 1208 glass with mat, 10 yards of 6 oz. glass cloth and one 50 yard roll of 6 oz tape- a 1/2 inch by 4 inch roller and a corner roller- got to get some close foam 4 inch rollers, and mixing cups, tyveck coveralls and some dust masks- all that is available at local big box hardware stores...no need to order and pay shipping charges- My 3 sheets of marine plywood has been stored in my workshop for the last few weeks- waiting on the metal building to get delivered before I start ripping out the sole-

[Redfish Ron]

I decided that a 20X21 building was too small for what I needed so I opted for a 21X24 foot with 8 foot side walls (enclosed on three sides) metal building- that decision caused me to have to level up more of the area for the foundation and do a lot more grunt foundation preparation (like a 24 ton dump truck load of crush and run) but- it is finally up and finished. The boat is under cover, out of the weather and ready for me to begin work- our Atlantic Coast weather has cooled down considerably so it looks like the floor lamination is going to be a spring time project- that said nothing is stopping me from starting the rip out of the old floors and doing all the removals of controls, etc. to get the console out of the boat- I'll post pictures as I go-

[Redfish Ron]

It is way too cold to work on any type of fiberglassing work, but I have a lot of other things I need to be doing to get the sole replaced- I have been scouring all the INTETNET sites on replacing floors (sole) in boats and have seen a lot of really jury rigged repairs and some that are really beyond the average skill set- One thought on stringers- why don't you see block foam used as a form for stringers?  I mean we use open figerglass stringers then pour two part expanding foam into them- seems like an extra step to someone as lazy as I am...why not cut block foam into the exact sizes and shapes needed for the stringer to start with, then cover that foam core with multiple layers of wetted 1708 and tab it in? Seems like you would eliminate the need to cleanup the overflows and repairs to the pour holes in stringers afterwards and have a more uniform, consistent high quality foam that you wouldn't have to worry about becoming waterlogged in the future. Also it seem that the original 170's had three stringers running fore and aft while later models with the fuel tanks under the sole had two stringers with cross bracing- is this observation correct or has these with two stringers models that have been rebuilt once before? I also notice that most folks are using PVC pipe as routing for rigging, controls, wiring.  Why not make a trough just like the ones from the factory, only put it under the sole instead of above and part of the sole and have it exit at the starboard rear with rubber enclosing the exit to waterproof? Or is the reason is that it is just a whole lot easier and less work to use the pipe?  How durable do you think the pipe will be? And if using the PVC Pipe what grade is best? Schedule 40, etc.

[gran398]

Ron, absolutely, you can use foam to build the stingers. Called Chris at Seamark...he mentioned this is how the Onslow Bay stringer system is constructed.

They use a closed cell, high density 1.5 inch foam plank. It is then heavily glassed. He thinks 2 to 3 layers of 1708 should be fine for a 17 foot boat. The downside is he says the planks are very expensive, at least the brand OB uses.

RE the trough. This is how we did ours, because we needed plenty of room rigging twins. Even then, as Seabob can attest, it was still a tight run. The trough on ours affixed to the outboard side of the starboard stringer. It is shown in the build pic thread

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10459

Good luck sir

[Capt. Bob]

Just a few quick answers Ron,

Using the block foam for a "mold". Sure, why not. Using other filler/support material isn't new on this Forum. You can find re-builds that have used different types of wood and molded (encapsulated) the stringers around it. I believe several have used a foam material and constructed stringers (not "trapezoidal"  but rather "traditional" in shape ) also.

The 2/3 (even 5) stringer layout was factory. Just changed over the years.

Of course any kind of "chase" will work better than just snaking wires under the deck but I'm guessing that the time needed for construction, cost and ease of install are the main reasons for using pipe. Availability is good also plus it provides a clean(er) environment (relatively speaking for a boat) for cabling.  

PVC durability is another story.
No one has lived long enough to confirm its life expectancy since its invention. Conservative estimates vary but several hundred years is the norm when protected from UV rays so.......
If you use it above deck, I'd recommend a healthy slathering of SPF 50.

Schedule 40 is more than sufficient. Properly supported, it is foolproof. Since it does not need to contain any pressure rating, even if it should crack or chip its effective use would diminish very little.  

Good luck.

Edit:
Thanks Scott, I had remembered others having rebuilt the stringers with a foam based product.

[Redfish Ron]

The cold, cold snowy winter has taken its toll on my project- Boat has been sitting inside the covered carport waiting warmer weather to begin the rebuild- I have gotten onboard several times and inventoried what I have- one thing is the live-well helm seat is in excellent shape- just needs some cleaning up and the wood refinished-  the live-well was never hooked up and it just like it came from the factory- question- what do I need to do to get it fully functional as a real everyday live-well ready to fish? Right now it is strictly a storage compartment- I looked for any links on the forum before posting but didn't find any. Whoever owned the boat originally took pretty good care of it- You can tell it was garage kept covered out of the sun. It was only in the last couple of years that it fell on hard times and was out in the weather.