Horsepower requirements for vintage Aquasports

[Woodeneye]

But by all means...if you think I'm dreaming considering the 150hp feel  free to tell me so. No offence will be taken.

[Rufneck]

Exactly. These old flatbacks and twelve degree hulls weren't designed to run 55. The idea was to provide an easy-planning, sweet running hull given the power available at that point in time.

The COG was mentioned since it has been discussed and is applicable. I too wish we had definitive numbers. Am sure they existed, but were lost long ago. Carl, you are on the right track with your estimates. Eugene stated there was a formula available, not sure where he obtained it however.

Couple of examples of how these boats run with what we consider low HP today. Skoot's 90 HP 19-6 easily ran in the mid twenties with 1000 ponds of men, gear, ice, beer, and food. My 22-2 planes and runs on a single 75 HP outboard.


Bottom line, these original designs run fine with moderate HP <!-- s:thumright: --><!-- s:thumright: -->

What were your numbers running on one engine? RPM/speed? What was the load? I know what mine ran precisely with (1) 115 so I would like to compare.

Fitz,
What sort of performance do you get on your 22 footer with the twin 115's?  I am looking to buy the same boat that has twin 115 hp Suzuki 4-strokes.  I know they are different motors, but any thoughts on speed would be appreciated as I do not believe that fuel burn will be applicable between the 2 different engine types.

Below is a link to the thread I started on the topic.
http://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=14198.0

[Capt. Bob]

I won't speak for Fitz (but will quote him):

My 73` 22-2 has twin 115 Mercs, this is the 12 degree bottom. Looks nice, plenty of hole shot, etc ,etc. Runs 46 mph and will beat you to death in any kind of chop running that fast. I really wish she had twin 75`s or 90`s max. The boat runs great at 25-29 mph. I dont need 230 hp to do that along with 10 GPH @ cruise. Every boat has that sweet spot where it does everything well at a certain speed and trim.


You see, you're trying to compare two different hulls here.

The one you show is a deep v hull design, Fitz's is a mod ve. Beam widths are similar but the weight of hull and motors is not.

Light reading.
http://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=11302.0

http://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=13090.msg140714#msg140714

Good luck.

[fitz73222]

Good job Bob,
Couldn't have said it better myself, or did I?

Anyway still wishing for lighter weight in the rear. I do miss the old days when we would rig them with twin 65 hp Evinrudes, run out to the gulf stream out of Daytona about 45 miles out on 30 gallons of gas, fish and come back on plane at about 22 mph and get on top on the swell and cruise all the way home. The boat would still run about 32 mph with 5 people on board and loaded with gear.

[theFunsmith]

I was power shopping for the 22-2 (12°) this weekend, and decided to ask some commercial fishing buddies what they are running. A substantial portion of the local dory fleet is running 90HP E-tecs on 22' boats very comparable in weight but with flat bottoms. When I told them I was looking at something in the 150 class (as it seems a lot of guys here are running) the majority of the responses were simply "why?". The conditions here on the west coast are rarely good enough to run at the kind of speeds a 150 would get me, and the weight and fuel savings are considerable. These guys have me thinking now that an E-Tec 90 or 115 might get me where I need to be. Is this a bad, or worse yet unsafe idea? I will not running with a tower or livewell or any wildly heavy items. The Evinrude dealers are running a 10 year warranty promo until April 1st, so I have a little time to figure it all out. Any insight here would be very appreciated.

[boatnamesue]

I was power shopping for the 22-2 (12°) this weekend, and decided to ask some commercial fishing buddies what they are running. A substantial portion of the local dory fleet is running 90HP E-tecs on 22' boats very comparable in weight but with flat bottoms. When I told them I was looking at something in the 150 class (as it seems a lot of guys here are running) the majority of the responses were simply "why?". The conditions here on the west coast are rarely good enough to run at the kind of speeds a 150 would get me, and the weight and fuel savings are considerable. These guys have me thinking now that an E-Tec 90 or 115 might get me where I need to be. Is this a bad, or worse yet unsafe idea? I will not running with a tower or livewell or any wildly heavy items. The Evinrude dealers are running a 10 year warranty promo until April 1st, so I have a little time to figure it all out. Any insight here would be very appreciated.

I grew up surrounded by the commercial fishing industry and thus commercial fisherman, this being my fathers career.  I can speak from experience when I say that I've never ever met a commercial fishing captain (not referencing charter captains) who concerned himself with the speed of his vessel.  So although it's never a bad idea to gain advice and suggestions from those who spend their life on the water, in this instance regarding engine horsepower, I wouldn't rely on their seaworthy experience to properly gauge the size hp engine you should hang on your 22-2.  And this is because how they use their boat and how you will use your boat is the difference between you joyriding and they making a living.

Think about this for moment.  Let's say you get 1970's 22-2 whose dry hull weight is approximately 1800lbs.   Let's say it's got a 60 gallon fuel tank (1800 + 360 = 2160).  Add your body weight and another with average weight assumptions (2160 + 375 = 2535).  Since you stated you won't be running with heavy gear, let's just skip over whatever total weight of gear is commonly used on boat.  Add weight of minimum 2 batteries (80lbs) + weight of console and rigging and anchor (approx 150lbs).  80 + 150 = 230. 

Now add 2535 with 230 = 2765.  What am I forgetting...oh yeah, and engine.  Etc 90 runs about 320lbs and a 115hp closer to 400.  Let's say you go with the Etec 90 (2765 + 320 = 3085).  Let's stop there cause hopefully I've made what will be my point.  Pushing a 3,100 lb vessel with a 90 hp is at the very most underpowered.  You will not be able to jump out of a hole, even with trim tabs and jack plate;  You will have an very very lengthy time to get on plane;  In situations of high seas when you need to power through head on waves to keep bow up, you won't have the power;  And most importantly, no matter what the brand of outboard, you will dramatically decrease the longevity of a 90hp hung on a 22-2 due to consistent over stressing the motor by running consistently at the high end of spec rpm range (you'll need to do this to main plane).  So, just a few things to think about before you buying that nice lightweight etc 90.  In my opinion, one should outfit a hull with an outboard that can provide an all around safe boating experience, no matter the conditions.  I wouldn't get caught up with not getting a larger outboard because you don't need to go faster.  Rather, get an the hp outboard that has the power to allow the 22-2 to perform at its peak, all the while not over stressing the outboard by doing so.

[theFunsmith]

That is why I love this forum. Thank you for the detailed response. The time you spent typing that wasn't lost on me. I very much appreciate it.

[boatnamesue]

That is why I love this forum. Thank you for the detailed response. The time you spent typing that wasn't lost on me. I very much appreciate it.

My pleasure.  And this of course is just one man's opinion.  But I recon you'll hear the same or similar from other members, regarding matching hp to hull.  I don't own a 22-2, though I've been a passenger in many, and none of which had less than a 150hp.  But these boats were outfitted for fishing, so the extra hp is needed because of the added weight of bait wells, tower, fishing gear, etc.  Good luck.

[Woodeneye]

I've just last summer re-powered my deep vee 222 CCP with a Yamaha F150. Frankly I couldn't be happier with the performance. It gets pretty wooly out front of Westport and the motors responsiveness helps enormously, particularly getting in & out of the harbour entrance when there is swell about......  like last summer. 2 Hurricane swells.........

The boat with 2 adults, 50  gallons of gas & all of our fishing gear happily does 34 knots and cruises at 24knots. Its very comfortable at that speed & it really isn't practical or safe to go any quicker out front most days, with that hull.

That being said, I don't think I'd want any less power. Strikes me anything smaller & you would be constantly wringing the motors neck, particularly when the seas are up and you are running with them.

Horses for courses I guess, but I like that I have a little power up my sleeve to get out of trouble. My $0.05 FWIW

[theFunsmith]

Thanks gents. Guess I am shopping for a 150.

[GoneFission]

I repowered my 22-2CCP with a new 200 Optimax this year and  am impressed.  The old 2.4L engine ran well, but as the saying goes "there's no replacement for displacement."  The 3.0L Optimax pulls like a bankrupt dentist and gets very good fuel economy across the RPM range.  The new 200 Opti is about the same weight as the old motor, so the scuppers are still above the water line and I don't have the stern droop that some heavy engines cause.  The old Mercury controls all work with the new motor, but I did upgrade to the new digital plug-and-play gauges, so I have fuel flow, water temp, speed, and all the high-tech features that the old motor lacked.  Very happy with the results!  She runs mid-40s with a 19 pitch prop - I could probably go to 21 ptich and get more top end, but as many here have said - she really likes running 25-30.  These boats are just not very happy over 40 MPH. 

BTW - the price was right on the 200 Optimax and Mercury was including a 5 year warranty - don't know if that is still available - but it tells you a bit about the expected reliability of these motors.