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Author Topic: Science project  (Read 1825 times)

December 08, 2014, 02:33:34 PM
Reply #15

Capt. Bob

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Re: Science project
« Reply #15 on: December 08, 2014, 02:33:34 PM »
Quote from: "dburr"
Under the correct circumstances just about anything can be plated, copper on plastic is a good example in the correct "bath" as the Old Man used to put it.. Voltage is not as big a deal as the current flow, if nothing jumps at you Farley with a straight up ohmmeter, do you have access to a megger?  This one may be a PIA and the current flow may be low enough that you will not see it with a regular meter.. Where there any breaks in the paint before the touch up?  Unless there is some oddball reaction with the paint and there should not be, the timing of the touch up may be a red herring..

While you chase the electrical gremlin Fitz, let's look a little closer at Dave's post.

Fishing in the usual spots correct? Everything about the same.....

Could the "bath" have been different? Something in the water that day that is not usually there? Metal in solution (iron) in runoff that just happened to be in your area? Doesn't really account for the pitting on the shaft which would appear to be the metal that made it to the outboard. If the paint is the culprit (only thing that appears to have been changed) maybe it was compounded in its interaction with the shaft because of the water that day.

Just thoughts.
]
Capt. Bob
1991 210 Walkaround
2018 Yamaha 150 4 Stroke
"Reef or Madness IV"

December 08, 2014, 02:51:34 PM
Reply #16

fitz73222

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Re: Science project
« Reply #16 on: December 08, 2014, 02:51:34 PM »
Quote from: "Capt. Bob"
Quote from: "dburr"
Under the correct circumstances just about anything can be plated, copper on plastic is a good example in the correct "bath" as the Old Man used to put it.. Voltage is not as big a deal as the current flow, if nothing jumps at you Farley with a straight up ohmmeter, do you have access to a megger?  This one may be a PIA and the current flow may be low enough that you will not see it with a regular meter.. Where there any breaks in the paint before the touch up?  Unless there is some oddball reaction with the paint and there should not be, the timing of the touch up may be a red herring..

While you chase the electrical gremlin Fitz, let's look a little closer at Dave's post.

Fishing in the usual spots correct? Everything about the same.....

Could the "bath" have been different? Something in the water that day that is not usually there? Metal in solution (iron) in runoff that just happened to be in your area? Doesn't really account for the pitting on the shaft which would appear to be the metal that made it to the outboard. If the paint is the culprit (only thing that appears to have been changed) maybe it was compounded in its interaction with the shaft because of the water that day.

Just thoughts.

Everything the same, same places I've fished for 40 years, brackish water with a little tannin but nothing out of the ordinary. I'll be on this like a chicken on a cheeto till it's figured out.
1973 Aquasport 22-2, twin 115 Mercs
2000 Baycraft 175 flats boat, 60 Bigfoot Merc
1968 Boston Whaler 13, 25 Yamaha (project)
1966 Orlando Clipper 13, 9.9 Merc

December 08, 2014, 03:10:04 PM
Reply #17

gran398

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Re: Science project
« Reply #17 on: December 08, 2014, 03:10:04 PM »
That boat looks absolutely brand-new in every respect.

After re-reading the posts, this has to be related to painting the motor. As you were thinking Farl, there must be some type of factory coating which isolates the steel from the aluminum. Bob had a good point in things happen in weird ways. I have put gold in the ultrasonic cleaner...if the liquid dissipates and the gold comes in contact with the metal bottom....it plates it black. I've also seen tarnish jump from silver to gold in closed jewelry boxes.

I'm thinking like Rick...give Motorguide Tech Support a call. Again, looking forward to what you discover :thumright:

December 08, 2014, 03:56:23 PM
Reply #18

fitz73222

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Re: Science project
« Reply #18 on: December 08, 2014, 03:56:23 PM »
The solution is in front of us and its staring me in the face. My DVOM and me/us will figure this out... No normal male would call Tech support this early in the game! At least a 1.75 of Dewars or Boru will see us to the promised land and we will overcome.
1973 Aquasport 22-2, twin 115 Mercs
2000 Baycraft 175 flats boat, 60 Bigfoot Merc
1968 Boston Whaler 13, 25 Yamaha (project)
1966 Orlando Clipper 13, 9.9 Merc

December 08, 2014, 04:11:07 PM
Reply #19

gran398

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Re: Science project
« Reply #19 on: December 08, 2014, 04:11:07 PM »
:lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Oh almost forgot....what is DVOM?

December 08, 2014, 04:48:04 PM
Reply #20

fitz73222

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Re: Science project
« Reply #20 on: December 08, 2014, 04:48:04 PM »
Digital Volt Ohms Meter...
1973 Aquasport 22-2, twin 115 Mercs
2000 Baycraft 175 flats boat, 60 Bigfoot Merc
1968 Boston Whaler 13, 25 Yamaha (project)
1966 Orlando Clipper 13, 9.9 Merc

December 08, 2014, 06:36:17 PM
Reply #21

Blue Agave

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Re: Science project
« Reply #21 on: December 08, 2014, 06:36:17 PM »
Chickens eat Cheetos?

Good luck, hope you figure it out  :thumleft:

1975 19-6
3.0 EFI Mercury 150 4S
"Don't count the days make the days count." - Muhammad Ali

December 08, 2014, 07:44:38 PM
Reply #22

futch13

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Re: Science project
« Reply #22 on: December 08, 2014, 07:44:38 PM »
Fitz,  Motorguide's paint has an insulating ingredient in it.  More of a coating as opposed to paint.  When you lightly sanded and repainted, you opened (shorted) a path thru the water, esp saltwater.  This, along with using the starting battery as a T/M battery (a BIG no-no), basically gave you a direct short to ground, ie battery-t/m-saltwater-gearcase-start battery=you are lucky you weren't in the water 10 hrs or you would probably be replacing the gearcase also.  

If you just isolate your t/m batteries from the rest of the boat, you should be good to go.  Capt Bob was right with his post from MG owners manual.

You can ask any of the warranty centers, for MG or MK, and they will tell you NOT to use starting battery for the TM.  I've known the owners of Central FL TM for ever and that is one of their pet peeves when customers come in complaining about their TM's

December 08, 2014, 09:31:49 PM
Reply #23

fitz73222

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Re: Science project
« Reply #23 on: December 08, 2014, 09:31:49 PM »
Quote from: "futch13"
Fitz,  Motorguide's paint has an insulating ingredient in it.  More of a coating as opposed to paint.  When you lightly sanded and repainted, you opened (shorted) a path thru the water, esp saltwater.  This, along with using the starting battery as a T/M battery (a BIG no-no), basically gave you a direct short to ground, ie battery-t/m-saltwater-gearcase-start battery=you are lucky you weren't in the water 10 hrs or you would probably be replacing the gearcase also.  

If you just isolate your t/m batteries from the rest of the boat, you should be good to go.  Capt Bob was right with his post from MG owners manual.

You can ask any of the warranty centers, for MG or MK, and they will tell you NOT to use starting battery for the TM.  I've known the owners of Central FL TM for ever and that is one of their pet peeves when customers come in complaining about their TM's

I'll be damn'd, learn something new everyday. So it sounds like I should add an additional battery for the trolling motor but its sounds like I shouldn't run it throught the same battery switch otherwise all the grounds would be connected together between the engine and trolling motor? Now its sounds like I've ruined the protection on the TM? It was quite amazing how quickly this happened. Thanks Loye, Bob C, and Capt'n Bob....
1973 Aquasport 22-2, twin 115 Mercs
2000 Baycraft 175 flats boat, 60 Bigfoot Merc
1968 Boston Whaler 13, 25 Yamaha (project)
1966 Orlando Clipper 13, 9.9 Merc

December 08, 2014, 09:49:13 PM
Reply #24

Capt. Bob

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Re: Science project
« Reply #24 on: December 08, 2014, 09:49:13 PM »
Gentlemen,
I'm going to move this over to the trolling motor forum tomorrow. Excellent information for those who are thinking of or have already installed, a trolling motor.

This has been very enlightening. :salut:
]
Capt. Bob
1991 210 Walkaround
2018 Yamaha 150 4 Stroke
"Reef or Madness IV"

December 09, 2014, 12:12:46 PM
Reply #25

GoneFission

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Re: Science project
« Reply #25 on: December 09, 2014, 12:12:46 PM »
Sorry I came into this thread late, but yes, the MotorGuide motors have more of a coating than paint, especially the Great White models that are made for salt water use.  The TM on my CCP is not isolated from the starting battery, but I'm running a MinnKota, not a MotorGuide - the nonconducting composite shaft on the MinnKota may help - the MotorGuide usually has a stainless shaft.  The MotorGuide catalog says:  "From the specially formulated coating, to the epoxy-sealed lower unit, to the stainless steel shaft..."  

I can see how refinishing a MotorGuide with paint can cause what you are describing, but an option would be to coat or dip the unit in one of those vinyl setups or even epoxy to provide electrical insulation/isolation.  Interesting discussion.
Cap'n John
1980 22-2 CCP
Mercury 200 Optimax 
ASPA0345M80I
"Gone Fission"
ClassicAquasport Member #209


December 22, 2014, 07:47:57 AM
Reply #26

fitz73222

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Re: Science project
« Reply #26 on: December 22, 2014, 07:47:57 AM »
I wanted to update you guys on where I am with this project and give you additional information I found during my research that explains well the various types of corrosion. But first, I systematically went through all the grounds on the boat and found perfect continuity with the engine at the skeg, jackplate, pumps etc from the battery negative terminal. I then moved to the trolling motor and found a low voltage (2.8V) leak emitting from the trolling motor case (while running) to ground, what is interesting is that I could not find continuity from the shaft zinc to ground, hence the zinc remained untouched while the stainless shaft was being attacked. So I'm assuming that this is stray current situation from the voltage leak to everything that was properly grounded. So something in this trolling motor is going on downstairs in the motor itself. I decided to replace the trolling motor rather than deal with trial and error and various coatings to try to stop this voltage leak. I researched between Motorguide and Minn Kota and found that the Minn Kota was hands down a better choice over the Motorguide which I currently have. I went to two Motorguide repair dealers (no help with current issue) and  they basically said go with Minn Kota which they also offered. Better warranty, composite parts, tilting extendable steering handle, powdercoated etc. I went with the Riptide SE 55# 12V up from the 43# Motorguide I had so the Minn should do very well on my flats boat.  I was very happy that the bolt patterns were identical so no additional holes in the boat. (just like the outboard manufacturers did). The only issue I have with the Minn is that this thing turns a big 2 blade propeller that can hit the deck when stowed. I would have had to mount the motor 10" out on the bow to avoid the prop coming in contact with the deck and would have looked like crap. So I'm working on a replacement aftermarket prop with a smaller diameter, so for now I will have to index the prop when stowing the motor to keep it from hitting the deck. PITA but I'll get around it. Anyway, the link below is a good read and we should archive this for future reference.



http://www.yachtsurvey.com/corrosion.htm
1973 Aquasport 22-2, twin 115 Mercs
2000 Baycraft 175 flats boat, 60 Bigfoot Merc
1968 Boston Whaler 13, 25 Yamaha (project)
1966 Orlando Clipper 13, 9.9 Merc

December 22, 2014, 08:34:05 AM
Reply #27

Capt. Bob

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Re: Science project
« Reply #27 on: December 22, 2014, 08:34:05 AM »
I moved it to the pinned "how to" in the Resource forum.
]
Capt. Bob
1991 210 Walkaround
2018 Yamaha 150 4 Stroke
"Reef or Madness IV"

December 22, 2014, 08:38:06 AM
Reply #28

fitz73222

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Re: Science project
« Reply #28 on: December 22, 2014, 08:38:06 AM »
Thanks Bob, I thought it was excellent, I swiped it from my antique Mercury forum so I thought I would share...
1973 Aquasport 22-2, twin 115 Mercs
2000 Baycraft 175 flats boat, 60 Bigfoot Merc
1968 Boston Whaler 13, 25 Yamaha (project)
1966 Orlando Clipper 13, 9.9 Merc

December 23, 2014, 09:47:57 AM
Reply #29

GoneFission

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Re: Science project
« Reply #29 on: December 23, 2014, 09:47:57 AM »
I think you will like the MinnKota - I've never had a problem with the big 2-blade prop on mine - but it is in a spot where it can't hit the hull.  I had a MotorGuide that had a 3-blade prop that was a PITA and always punched a hole through any boat cover...   :evil:  

Put a coat of UV wax on the MinnKota composite shaft - they are somewhat affected by sunlight.  Mine shows some oxidation after 4-5 years of use...
Cap'n John
1980 22-2 CCP
Mercury 200 Optimax 
ASPA0345M80I
"Gone Fission"
ClassicAquasport Member #209


 

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