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Author Topic: Starting Engine Shuts Down Other Electronics  (Read 1228 times)

May 14, 2018, 10:40:23 AM
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CTsalt12

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Starting Engine Shuts Down Other Electronics
« on: May 14, 2018, 10:40:23 AM »
Hi All,

Experiencing an odd issue. 

When I start my engine, and I have my stereo/lights/fishfinder on, it seems starting the engine cuts out the power to my other electronics temporarily.  It would seem the voltage required for starting draws enough away from my other sources that it turns them off.

Is this normal?  I have two battery setup, starting and house.  I have not checked the battery charge in some time, entirely possible I just need a replacement, but I'd like to check your thoughts on what I should be troubleshooting first.

Thanks all.
Jimbo
1989 175 Osprey

May 14, 2018, 06:01:37 PM
Reply #1

Capt. Bob

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Re: Starting Engine Shuts Down Other Electronics
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2018, 06:01:37 PM »
Is this normal?  I have two battery setup, starting and house.  I have not checked the battery charge in some time, entirely possible I just need a replacement, but I'd like to check your thoughts on what I should be troubleshooting first.

Logic would indicate that if this were me, then yes.
Why?
Because I'm very old school in that I run the same battery to both start and supply voltage to my "house" items. Everything electrical in my boat runs off the same battery, thus if the battery is failing, I would expect the same then to occur. I do have two batteries and switch usage each trip but still only one battery is used during the trip.

Since you indicate two batteries each dedicated either to starting or supplying 12 volt accessories, you may have some bad wiring going on. Can you give us an idea just how your system is put together? Possibly a grounding issue? :ScrChin:
]
Capt. Bob
1991 210 Walkaround
2018 Yamaha 150 4 Stroke
"Reef or Madness IV"

May 15, 2018, 12:25:25 AM
Reply #2

boatnamesue

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Re: Starting Engine Shuts Down Other Electronics
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2018, 12:25:25 AM »
I have two battery setup, starting and house.

Can you elaborate on the above?  I'm assuming you have accessories tied to the cranking battery if power is cutting your accessories off.  But if you have a 2nd battery, why aren't you isolating the cranking battery to the engine and tying accessory loads to house battery?

And yes, cranking the engine requires a tremendous amount of amps.  And if you do have xyz accessories tied to cranking battery and these accessories power on when ignition key is turned on, then add in all of those amps as you turn the key to crank. 
---------------
Jason
1976 AS 170
1998 S115TLRW

May 15, 2018, 11:49:18 AM
Reply #3

CTsalt12

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Re: Starting Engine Shuts Down Other Electronics
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2018, 11:49:18 AM »
When I had the electronics work done some 7 years ago, I am told the accessories and cranking battery were isolated.  So in theory I could run my accessory battery empty at the "sandbar" using my stereo, air conditioner, pina colada blender etc., and still have sufficient power in my cranking battery to start her up and get me home. 

Could it be a grounding issue?  Yes. bad wiring?  Entirely possible.  I'm just not sure where to start looking.  Certain wires making contact with each other that shouldn't be?
Jimbo
1989 175 Osprey

May 15, 2018, 11:56:45 AM
Reply #4

Capt. Bob

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Re: Starting Engine Shuts Down Other Electronics
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2018, 11:56:45 AM »
Well then, begin at the beginning.

Check the battery connections, both  at the power source (battery) and the isolation switch. There appears to be some form of "mis-connection" .

Let's try this. I'm assuming you have an isolation switch so what is your switching procedure for starting the engine and then supplying the house loads?
]
Capt. Bob
1991 210 Walkaround
2018 Yamaha 150 4 Stroke
"Reef or Madness IV"

May 15, 2018, 03:52:03 PM
Reply #5

CTsalt12

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Re: Starting Engine Shuts Down Other Electronics
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2018, 03:52:03 PM »
Well then, begin at the beginning.

Check the battery connections, both  at the power source (battery) and the isolation switch. There appears to be some form of "mis-connection" .

Let's try this. I'm assuming you have an isolation switch so what is your switching procedure for starting the engine and then supplying the house loads?

I have it set to "all" for the whole time.  Starting, re-starting.  I will check the battery connections and isolation switch.
Jimbo
1989 175 Osprey

May 15, 2018, 04:01:37 PM
Reply #6

boatnamesue

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Re: Starting Engine Shuts Down Other Electronics
« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2018, 04:01:37 PM »
I am told the accessories and cranking battery were isolated.

Just so I'm clear...all of your accessories are tied to the house battery and the only load applied to the cranking battery is the engine.  Is this correct?
---------------
Jason
1976 AS 170
1998 S115TLRW

May 15, 2018, 04:55:25 PM
Reply #7

Capt. Bob

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Re: Starting Engine Shuts Down Other Electronics
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2018, 04:55:25 PM »
If the back of your switch looks like this (Perko type):



Battery 1 positive lead to top left post
Battery 2 positive lead to top right post
Positive battery cable lead from bottom center post to positive post on engine starter and......
6 gauge fused lead from bottom center to helm buss (positive) to feed electronics/lights/pumps whatever.

You do "isolate" one battery from another ( except when your in the both/all position) but both starting and your helm electronics will be powered at the same time from the same battery. A weak battery would cause the symptoms you describe. Placing it in the both/all mode just uses both batteries and again indicates one or both need charging.

This is old school switching and to actually "isolate" starting from house you would need an additional switch.
]
Capt. Bob
1991 210 Walkaround
2018 Yamaha 150 4 Stroke
"Reef or Madness IV"

July 18, 2018, 11:39:03 AM
Reply #8

CTsalt12

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Re: Starting Engine Shuts Down Other Electronics
« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2018, 11:39:03 AM »
Hi All,

Haven't had time to work on this, as fishing, re-power, and other issues got in the way.

It is entirely possible I have a weak battery, I have charged them since and still have the issue, and my charger indicated no issues. 

I do have the Perko type switch you mention, Capt Bob.. Same wiring with the fused lead to helm buss.

One question-I have a pretty bootleg looking helm buss.  It only has two terminals, so I have all my electronics and engine linked to just two terminals.  I am thinking the excess voltage from the engine cranking gets routed to other electronics I have turned on (usually fishfinder, lights, stereo), thus causing them to lose power. 

Is this possible?  Should I have a buss bar that isolates all electronics' negative wires to different terminals? 

 
Jimbo
1989 175 Osprey

July 18, 2018, 12:01:08 PM
Reply #9

wingtime

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Re: Starting Engine Shuts Down Other Electronics
« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2018, 12:01:08 PM »
Your getting a voltage drop when you crank your motor causing the electronics to shut down due to low voltage.  What is the voltage at your electronics with the engine off?  Then check the voltage at your battery.  I'm thinking you have some resistance built up in the power feed or ground for the helm.

I used to have this issue.  I also hated the battery management of having to remember to switch from the starting battery to the house battery and then back when out fishing running the livewell pumps etc all day.  The best solution was the Blue Seas add a battery kit with the switch and automatic charge relay.  This separated my house and starting battery into two circuits with the ACR automatically combining them when there is a charge voltage detected. All I have to do know is turn on my main switch and a small toggle switch to turn on the ACR.  No switching from #1 to #2 or both.  I do still have the ability to combine both batteries in case I need more juice to start the motor or something.  I've only had to do that once and that was one of my batteries was going bad.

Check it out:  https://www.bluesea.com/products/7649/Mini_Add-A-Battery_Kit_-_65A

1998 Explorer w/ Etec 250


1987 170 w/ Evinrude 90

April 17, 2019, 10:38:30 AM
Reply #10

CTsalt12

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Re: Starting Engine Shuts Down Other Electronics
« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2019, 10:38:30 AM »
Reviving this thread from the dead as I've been doing an overhaul of my electronics, as well as organizing the heck out of it.  This diagram is exactly how my electronics are setup.  https://i.pinimg.com/originals/f0/c0/eb/f0c0ebab052850391ff6ff16a184956a.jpg 

I will check the voltage at the electronics with the engine off, wingtime..  I checked the batteries, both are indicating full charge so I don't think that's the issue.  Amazing I've had one of them since I got the boat in 2012... I'm going to sound like a complete fool here, but one thing I noticed is both batteries are 'cranking' type... This has always been the case since I've had this boat.
Jimbo
1989 175 Osprey

April 18, 2019, 08:56:43 AM
Reply #11

Fish Head

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Re: Starting Engine Shuts Down Other Electronics
« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2019, 08:56:43 AM »
Checkout “Seminar:Marine Electrical basics” from Pacific Yacht Systems -Jeff Cote-on YouTube. It’s a six part series and I think he talks about batteries in part 4. I got a lot of info from the whole series, good watch. Could be very dangerous using a cranking battery for a deep cell application as in the battery could explode!! Cranking battery is like a sprinter and a deep cell is like a long distance runner. You would not want to interchange the two to do opposite jobs. Checkout the videos, Jeff explains it all pretty much. Cheers T

April 19, 2019, 01:27:58 PM
Reply #12

wingtime

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Re: Starting Engine Shuts Down Other Electronics
« Reply #12 on: April 19, 2019, 01:27:58 PM »
I have a slight low voltage issue feeding my helm/house power.  Some day I'll have to rewire the main feed to my panel.  With That said I'm still running the Blue Seas Add a battery set up.  Having a separate power feed/house battery has been fantastic.  Looking at your wiring diagram that is a typical way of wiring a boat with a single battery switch and two batteries.  I have a wiring diagram of my setup on Photobucket..  not sure if I can get a link for it.     

And all I can say is screw Photobucket...  sorry
1998 Explorer w/ Etec 250


1987 170 w/ Evinrude 90

May 02, 2019, 10:08:32 AM
Reply #13

CTsalt12

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Re: Starting Engine Shuts Down Other Electronics
« Reply #13 on: May 02, 2019, 10:08:32 AM »
If the back of your switch looks like this (Perko type):



Battery 1 positive lead to top left post
Battery 2 positive lead to top right post
Positive battery cable lead from bottom center post to positive post on engine starter and......
6 gauge fused lead from bottom center to helm buss (positive) to feed electronics/lights/pumps whatever.

You do "isolate" one battery from another ( except when your in the both/all position) but both starting and your helm electronics will be powered at the same time from the same battery. A weak battery would cause the symptoms you describe. Placing it in the both/all mode just uses both batteries and again indicates one or both need charging.

This is old school switching and to actually "isolate" starting from house you would need an additional switch.

Capt Bob-I understand what you're saying here.  And this is how my boat is wired.  Batteries do not need charging so that doesn't appear to be the issue.  I still need to get a multimeter and check voltage at helm and at battery with engine off.  One thing I have not checked in years is the connection to the Perko battery switch.  Quick question though-The setup above does not truly isolate the cranking battery from the house battery as you pointed out.  Both engine and house electronics are on the common post. What is the reason why I would not want to connect my 6 gauge fused lead to one single battery post as opposed to the common?  This would also ensure if my engine is off and I'm using electronics, I could only wear down one battery and still have one to start the engine, right?  What am I missing? 
Jimbo
1989 175 Osprey

May 04, 2019, 03:29:43 PM
Reply #14

Capt. Bob

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Re: Starting Engine Shuts Down Other Electronics
« Reply #14 on: May 04, 2019, 03:29:43 PM »
By attaching directly to one battery terminal (P) you leave the helm bus energized continually. This is good for a bilge pump switch on a boat kept in the water. It allows the pump to work when needed. On the other hand, leaving the helm positive buss energized can lead to a parasitic drain and a resulting dead battery. The most current method is to use the Add a Battery switch from Blue Sea.

It does what you want and also provides your electronics protection from stating electrical spikes and the resulting posible damage from same.

Good luck. :thumright:
]
Capt. Bob
1991 210 Walkaround
2018 Yamaha 150 4 Stroke
"Reef or Madness IV"

 

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